• General

  • Is GrapheneOS a net privacy gain over iOS in my situation?

Aside the imessage thing you probably will not notice much difference. You should use the Pixel for a few days and see if you can get along with the oled flickering that the screen shows. I don't use my 6a as a daily driver because it stresses my eyes, i prefer the lcd screens who are much easier to read.

But apart from that, Graphene OS is really working well. I also have an iPhone XR, but i wouldn't say there is anything missing and Graphene is very stable, never had something that didn't work. Their web browser is working well, the usability is excellent (if you can manage your iOS settings, you will manage the Graphene settings too).

A problem could be that you use iMessage. If you really use this daily, it might be annoying to switch from iOS to Android. If i had a service that is really only running on one specific platform, it's not worth to change the OS.

And think about that the iphones get much longer support. Graphene supports Pixels mostly for the time Google supports these, and that is only half the time that iPhones get nowadays. That doesn't make them so expensive if you really use these as long as they get supported.

So i think a change will not make you lucky. In my case the 6a oled screen makes me still use the iPhone XR as a daily driver and i plan to do this, until it's really dead or doesn't get supported anymore.

I could think that your "screen" will be the missing imessage feature and that will make it hard to use only Android.

But in general, Graphene OS is really great, easy to install or uninstall, easy to use, no real bugs and constant security updates. If i should ever switch fully to Android, then there is no other choice than a Pixel running GrapheneOS.

    MineralWater

    And think about that the iphones get much longer support. Graphene supports Pixels mostly for the time Google supports these, and that is only half the time that iPhones get nowadays.

    I am fairly sure iPhones are not supported for 10 years but I would be fine with an example that proves otherwise?

        Renewably3997

        I can only add to the good answers given by the previous speakers:
        Consider the eternal security vulnerabilities of iMessage.
        Most zero-day exploits were in connection with iMessage.
        That's why I have deactivated iMessage on my iPhones for years and only use the iMessage client for receiving SMS (some companies still send SMS, sometimes still 2FA, otherwise I wouldn't need SMS at all).
        The email client was also very dangerous with iOS, which is why I had even deleted the email client.

        With Tutanota, I have a secure email client with E2EE.
        As a messenger, I am using Threema since December 2020 and additional Session since September 2022.
        If I were you, I would tell all my SMS contacts about the planned change and suggest Session for confidential messages, because hardly anyone wants to pay money for a messenger and some people would have to use a (different) messenger just for you.
        I don't think Signal is safe because it requires a phone number and unnecessarily supports MobileCoins.
        But if you trust Signal, then it's similar like me with Threema and Session:
        With Threema I have the most contacts and conversations with friends. Session is my plan B, if Client-side scanning or Chat control is coming (https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/) andThreema could not defend itself.

        I've been a happy user of a Pixel 7 Pro with GrapheneOS since March. :-)

            In regards to iMessage, I want to say you might not need to lose it. If you have Mac(or another computer running MacOS) and you don't mind leaving on all the time connected to the internet you can use AirMessage. I've used it personally and It works okay.

            Imo iMessage is better than SMS but this ofcourse dependends on your threat model(not sure if this nomaclature is applicable to privacy)

            Eagle_Owl
            We (my family and I) like Session.

            There was trouble with wobbly notifications early in this year, but it seems to have gone away.

              Pacienco

              I am fairly sure iPhones are not supported for 10 years but I would be fine with an example that proves otherwise?

              iPhones still offer the longest support period of any phone on the market. The iPhone 6S is still supported today with iOS15, which is still getting security fixes.

              iOS15 is somewhat special, in that it's the first version of iOS to be supported for more than a year, but nonetheless, the iPhone 6S is getting almost 8 years worth of updates. It's reasonable to think, based on past experience, that newer iPhones will be supported for longer.

              So if all you care about is cost (and you expect your phone to never need repairing), the latest iPhone SE is a very cost-effective purchase, because total cost of ownership will continue to go down over the years. If you hold the phone for 6-7 years, you get slightly more bang for your buck than the Google Pixel, assuming you don't buy on sale. But it's still very close. And you also have to take into account total battery capacity degradation over time. iPhone battery replacements are expensive.

                Renewably3997 I don't like the fact that I'd be utilizing SMS so much more than I do now but I really have no idea what sort of data Apple is sending to themselves every few minutes and it bothers me that the iPhone is constantly communicating with Apple even when I'm not using it.

                GrapheneOS:
                you control what is sent over sms
                you control what apps/services can access
                no background communication from the OS

                Ios:
                iMessage is private from certain parties
                limited control over what apps/services can access
                full background communication from the OS

                i would posit that as long as you take the necessary measures when communicating over sms, you have much more control which enables much better privacy with GrapheneOS. I am a former iphone user, am completely happy with GrapheneOS and encourage you to take the step if you feel you would benefit.

                Good luck on you privacy journey!

                  Renewably3997

                  There are a LOT of reason to move away from apple. Cost is a one. freedom from the walled garden and app choice is another.

                  In regards to iMessage I would say, do your text messages contain that much private data? Is iMessages really protecting you that much? Is iMessage not subject to government hand over? (I ask cuz I actually dont know this one.)
                  Remember, even if you protect your messages on your end, the other person can always compromise your conversations simply by sending it to the cloud or other giving other apps access to their messages. I'm not familiar with the privacy of apple iMessages so I can't say.

                  But I personally absolutely hate being milked for money by any company specially by apple. Pay a lot of money and then be locked in their app dystopia.

                  I'm not going anywhere specific with this rant. Its a hard choice friend.

                  Perhaps having iMessage protect all your conversations might be significant enough for you to stay. Only you'd know that cause we don't know the content of your conversations and the prevalence of your usage.

                  Remember that by not having an apple phone or a phone that runs google play you are helping the privacy of the world and not just yourself. These phones spy on everyone around you as well through their wifi and bluetooth spyware.

                      Renewably3997

                      Just one addition about iMessage and its „Security”:
                      Your conversations with others is only save and private, as long no one uses iCloud for backups!
                      Because Apple adds your private key for iMessage to every iCloud backup!
                      Remember: Apple has the keys – so it's not really end-to-end-encryption. ;-)

                      If the authorities ask Apple for the key, they get it and can read everything (!).
                      From time to time, the transport encryption to iCloud is so lousy that someone with the appropriate knowledge/skills can break the encryption without Apple's key and help themselves.
                      If a customer then has unencrypted backups in iCloud, everything is completely unprotected.

                      Note: you have no control over that from your side ...

                      • de0u replied to this.

                          Eagle_Owl From time to time, the transport encryption to iCloud is so lousy that someone with the appropriate knowledge/skills can break the encryption without Apple's key and help themselves.

                          An assertion like this might benefit from a link to an outside source with details.

                              User2288 Is iMessages really protecting you that much? Is iMessage not subject to government hand over? (I ask cuz I actually dont know this one.)

                              "Limited" access to messages. It would honestly depend on your setup and it mainly boils down to the user backing up data on iCloud, primarily their messages. When I use iMessage I do not back up to iCloud.

                              See the leaked FBI document in this article about data they can access per app: https://www.androidauthority.com/fbi-document-messaging-apps-3069511/

                                A note about encryption in iCloud—enabling Advanced Data Protection will enable end-to-end encryption for iMessage: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303#notes

                                7. Messages in iCloud
                                a. Standard data protection: Messages in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted when iCloud Backup is disabled. When iCloud Backup is enabled, your backup includes a copy of the Messages in iCloud encryption key to help you recover your data. If you turn off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future Messages in iCloud. This key is end-to-end encrypted between your devices and isnʼt stored by Apple.
                                b. Advanced Data Protection: Messages in iCloud is always end-to-end encrypted. When iCloud Backup is enabled, everything inside it is end-to-end encrypted, including the Messages in iCloud encryption key.

                                Here's a breakdown of the type of encryption used in iCloud for every class of data: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303#advanced

                                5 days later

                                I've used apple mobile and Mac since iPhone 4, (my Mac has a cd drive in the monitor, just to age it for you)
                                I've recently moved to android this past 2 months with Graphene on a pixel 6 using the web installer. I'm interested and capable of PC use and basic understanding, but not a techie by any means.
                                Apart from the recent Aurora store issue, being able to connect the phone to a PC and just use it as such, as mention transparently, is great.
                                No more itunes, icloud BS.
                                Like others, getting over a decade of files and pictures out of apples grips has been painfully bananas.

                                In terms of your messaging, I've just recently through this thread realized Graphene doesn't support MMS? Am I to be corrected on this?
                                I was wondering why I could not send video getting the "attachment limit reached" message.
                                Other than that I have found no difference in messaging. Once Graphene was installed and put my Sim card in, me or everyone I contact hasn't had to do anything different to communicate through text.

                                I did convince my family and a couple of friends to go to signal when I tried a different privacy phone/OS and I couldn't even get consistent texting to work, so now I send any video to my family using signal. Why that works on Graphene, I don't know as I am not techie enough to understand.

                                The freedom you gain however knowing Apple is not privy to your every location, and probably listening to you and using their Bluetooth mesh network to keep track of everyone around you, is quite liberating.
                                I brought both phones with me for a while in case I needed access to any work files/contacts I forgot to transfer over, but I'm now apple free.
                                And it's beautiful.

                                  Someguyuphere
                                  I want to be apple free too, but I do not know how to do it!
                                  I have a life time of photos, like 20k+ in the MacOS photo app (this is the primary issue for not leaving MacOS to be honest)…. And my iPhone, all these WhatsApp groups lol

                                      [deleted] Can't you backup your Whatsapp data to Google Drive and transfer it to GrapheneOS? Or is the backup functionality for Whatsapp Android exclusive?