I like the approach Snikket is taking. It's not reinventing the wheel. XMPP, which is very well tested, robust, lightweight and has proven it can be extended for new usages as the world evolves throughout the years. With OMEMO for robust, secure and private E2EE. Built on top of existing popular server (Prosody) and clients (Conversations and Siskin) and contributing back to upstream. All with a consistent branding for easier adoption by non techies. I wish it was more popular so that it coul get more funding, collaborators and a larger ecosystem for easy deployment of servers etc.

I wish all the effort that was spent towards building the bloated, complex and complicated Matrix would have been spent extending XMPP further, building more servers, clients and gateways.

    brightjob4495 May i ask, could you mention some benefits of XMPP over matrix? I do not know neither very well, i only heard that they are similar

      brightjob4495 Finally some sense, there is imo nothing better than XMPP.

      Why XMPP?

      Server entity and app entity are 2 different things, reducing any kind of supply-chain attacks since the signing keys of the server are not the signing keys of the application.

      XMPP server (prosody) can be hosted as a hidden service on the Tor network, making it impossible for someone to locate the physical server. Perfect for anonymity use-case. In this use-case XMPP becomes onion routed and you cannot leak your IP address.

      XMPP doesnt need any identifying information from the client, you simply need to make a username@servername,something and create a password. That's it! No phone number, no email, no nothing!

      XMPP is very lightweight and doesnt need a lot of resources to host the server on unlike matrix, a simpel VPS or raspbery pie is enough to host the server on for thousands of users.

      XMPP has the ability for END 2 END encrypted chats and file sharing thanks to OMEMO, which is a Signal fork and audited. XMPP supports OMEMO for private chats and also for private group chats!

      XMPP has also the option for federation by enabling server2server connections, though for those who want privacy they can disable that of course.

        Hathaway_Noa Well i must say you got me interested there, could you please provide me with a link as to how to setup an onion xmpp?

          Signal recently announced new "quantum resistant" features.

          Hathaway_Noa

          OMEMO, which is a Signal fork

          I'm definitely curious - what might it look like for OMEMO to inherit these "quantum resistant" features from upstream?

            PMUSR

            Olvid is in the game since 2019. They have and are close to good cybersecurity French experts. Olvid is used by the RAID (elite tactical unit of the French police).
            They are open to bug bounties.

            [deleted]

            As a startup they have chosen agressive marketing to attract attention and build a sustainable business model, namely with professionals that can pay them. For individuals the app is free, and 4.99€ / month to be able to call people.

            A problem raised is that Olvid is using AWS. The Olvid answer is that their security model does not trust the servers.
            I think that the biggest problem of Olvid is that it is not internationally mature enough so that people around the world take the time to look into the matter.
            They seem focused to conquer the French environment first. They have not survived yet a big exposure at an international scale like Signal so that we challenge well their credibility.

            As of now I would not necessarily recommend Olvid compared to the other solutions, just saying that this option exists.

            Hathaway_Noa I have been hosting matrix on a Raspberry Pi for a long time with no problem and have changed server for the needs of another app.

              Icecube Libre Threema still needs a paid Threema license. If you have a high threat model, they only accept Bitcoin which is traceable. Would like to see Monero. All a pain anyway and great FOSS options as mentioned.

              GrapheneLover hi can you host a xmpp server from something like a pixel running graphene? After upgrading I now have a spare pixel that would be great for this.

              Also is xmpp user friendly for beginners

              GrapheneLover I'd love to use xmpp, but a reference implementation would make it so much easier ! Each time I try, I overwhelmed by the different optional specifications, implementations, compatibility, ... How did you choose your server, and what clients are you using ?

                Tuba

                https://prosody.im/

                zzz I have no idea at the moment if the devs of OMEMO are going to implement such a thing, I will have to ask them.

                Javcek

                No, Signal uses its own protocol and XMPP is compatible with OMEMO which is a fork of the Signal created protocol.

                Eirikr70 Still matrix is buggy as hell and heavy upon both phone and desktop imo.

                  alci

                  Prosody is imo the best robust XMPP server which comes configured pretty good as default, though you can always improve it by adding onion routing and disabling server2server connection and more features. Setting up a server is just a 1-time effort and after setting up everything you're done and can use an app like Conversations like any other IM app.

                    Hathaway_Noa Still matrix is buggy as hell and heavy upon both phone and desktop imo.

                    You might be right. But it was hard having my familiars switch from Whatsapp to a Matrix client. I won't try and have them migrate to xmpp ...

                    Tuba XMPP is way lighter than Matrix. It's been around for decades and has managed to evolve with time to support the new needs as the context since 1999 has changed. In my opinion that signals that it can continue evolving for another couple of decades. It's a very stable standard. It doesn't have a reference implementation nor a "default" server provider, which makes it harder to "kill" or steer in a specific direction for the benefit of a few.

                    On the other hand, it's more confusing and less friendly to newcomers. Which is I guess why Matrix seems to be more popular nowadays

                    SimpleX is a great step up from Signal. It has the same double-ratchet encryption but fixes privacy issues around metadata and phone #s. Should absolutely replace WhatsApp for anyone still using that.