• Development

  • What features will be missing in GOS' Android 15 version?

I really would like to see secure face unlock, a convenience feature introduced already with P8. Unfortunately it hasn't found its way to GrapheneOS although there were some vague promises to look into. The Hardware to make it secure is there, but the software is missing on GOS. Later on this year it was stated that secure face unlock is interfering with 2FA unlock implementation although these are totally different topics. I don't want to be to negative, I like GOS, but this was a very disappointing decision by GOS Team since my wife uses this feature on her P8 with stock Android and loves this feature. She always is laughing that I am not able to use it.

Probably, secure face unlock isn't open source and must invented and written completely new and probably that's timewise and technically (know how) not possible, an I right?

    androidin Later on this year it was stated that secure face unlock is interfering with 2FA unlock implementation although these are totally different topics.

    The issue isn't about whether face-unlock hardware and fingerprint-unlock hardware are the same (they're not), or whether a user's face is the same as a user's finger (they're not). The issue is whether or not the code for face unlock and the code for PIN/passphrase unlock and the code for fingerprint unlock are interrelated, and my understanding is that the Android unlock code in general is a complicated interwoven carnival.

    androidin Probably, secure face unlock isn't open source and must invented and written completely new and probably that's timewise and technically (know how) not possible, an I right?

    I think the things that would be necessary are something like:

    • high-resolution IR face camera (clearly some Pixel devices have this)
    • face-recognition software core (online I read that this is closed-source and proprietary, though in theory an open-source alternative could be found or written)
    • integrating face-recognition software with the IR face camera ("a simple matter of programming")
    • sufficient testing (presumably including twins!) to believe it's reasonably secure

    I suspect if this were easy then some Android variants would already be doing it, especially ones with large user communities. Is this feature available on LineageOS, DivestOS, crDroid, etc.? If it's available on all of them except GrapheneOS, maybe it's easy-ish? If it's available on none of them maybe it isn't easy.

          de0u I think the things that would be necessary are something like:

          de0u

          • high-resolution IR face camera (clearly some Pixel devices have this)
          • face-recognition software core (online I read that this is closed-source and proprietary, though in theory an open-source alternative could be found or written)
          • integrating face-recognition software with the IR face camera ("a simple matter of programming")
          • sufficient testing (presumably including twins!) to believe it's reasonably secure

          well pixel has the hardware & i know some twins so in a certain sense we're already halfway there

              DeletedUser88 Will I be able to set a separate VPN in the private space just like a normal profile?

              On the stock PixelOS, the latest Android 15 Beta, the Settings app in Owner has a nice UI for switching between settings for the Owner profile and the Private Space profile. When you go to Settings > Network & internet > VPN, the VPN apps are marked with icons to differentiate between the VPN slots for Owner and Private Space profiles. I expect this to be the case for AOSP as well.

              I think that Private Space is very nicely done – UI-wise it's easy to quickly differentiate between apps, settings and notifications in Owner and Private Space. You can run two instances of the same app side-by-side and quickly note which one you're currently using by activating the app switcher. I took some screenshots to better explain this but I think seeing it for yourself when GrapheneOS based on AOSP15 is released will explain it better.

              Please note that I have only tested this on PixelOS.

                  de0u

                  high-resolution IR face camera (clearly some Pixel devices have this)

                  Only the Pixel 4 and Pixel 4 XL had IR face scanning. They had dual IR scanners for 3D scanning, a dot projector and a flood illuminator. Face unlock on the recent Pixel generations is a software feature entirely based on the front camera. The front camera is far more primitive than the rear cameras and didn't even support autofocus until the Pixel 8 Pro and all models of the 9th generation Pixels, but it's a more primitive kind of autofocus. They use phase detection autofocus rather than dual pixel autofocus which is more primitive and doesn't provide as much data for face scanning. We could add support for it if we really wanted but it's not really a good implementation of face unlock and we're not fans of it. 9th gen Pixels moved to nicer ultrasonic fingerprint scanners.

                      GrapheneOS Oh, I didn't realize that the stock OS's face unlock on the Pixel 8 and Pixel 9 was using a regular visual camera. Thanks for clarifying that. I can imagine that might dampen the project's enthusiasm.

                        Dumdum Ah, little bit disappointing but it serves as a nice feature to confine sandboxed Play along with the apps requiring it into a Private Space. We will see how the UI looks and if there is possibility to share files and images in a Storage Scopes setting spanning both the Owner and Private Space.

                          fid02 Thanks for your response. I was curious about clipboard functionality as well. Can I copy and paste text from the private space to my main profile and vice versa?

                              GrapheneOS We already added Private Space integration

                              Will GOS' implementation allow nesting VPNs such that if I have a VPN active in my owner profile and a simultaneously active but different VPN in the private space, the 'entry or real user IP' the private space VPN sees or reports is that of the owner profile's VPN? In this case, if only the owner profile has an active VPN, the IP of the space as visible to its apps and reported while browsing any IP testing site would be that of the owner's profile VPN.

                                  missing-root They also removed the headphone jack, which I guess is the biggest security issue

                                  The USB-C port works just fine as a headphone jack, I am using it all the time. You just need USB-C earplugs or an adapter from USB-C to analog headphone jack. I cannot see how USB-C would be less secure than a regular analog headphone jack. But I totally understand not wanting to use Bluetooth.

                                      ryrona

                                      I talked about security. Headphone jacks work waaay better than a dongle, trust me, do an A/B comparison.

                                      It works better, is faster and most importantly it just does audio I/O and like 3 commands for the buttons.

                                      The GrapheneOS USB port settings can set it to "charging only" which is a big security advantage against unknown attacks.

                                          17 days later

                                          missing-root No, they didn't degrade security by moving back to fingerprint unlock for the Pixel 4a and later. Pixel 4 and Pixel 4 XL are the only Pixel devices with no fingerprint unlock. Every Nexus/Pixel since the Nexus 5X and Nexus 6P has had fingerprint unlock other than those two phones. It was not well received due to being significantly more expensive with few benefits. They also added to the cost by including Soli radar alongside the dual IR cameras, dot projector and flood illuminator. They dropped all of this for the Pixel 4a and later, and have never included any of it again. That's how badly received it was with the 4th gen flagships. Every device since then has fingerprint unlock. Pixel 6 and later moved to under screen, other than the 7th gen Fold and Tablet which used the power button and the 9 Pro Fold which does the same.

                                          Face unlock is only included as a secondary frill alongside fingerprint unlock for the Pixel 7 and later. It was quite bad on the Pixel 7 and couldn't even qualify as a strong biometric unlock option despite the low bar for that so not all apps would work after using it to unlock without further authentication. Pixel 8 and later fixed that, but it's still not up to our standards. We prefer fingerprint unlock over even the 4th gen flagship face unlock, but GrapheneOS did support face unlock for the flagship 4th generation Pixels. We have nothing against supporting it when it's properly secured.

                                              missing-root The audio input and output for the analog audio jack was always very low quality due to never having a high end DAC. There's still wired headphone support via USB-C. Even the basic Apple and Google USB-C DAC provide far high quality audio.

                                              USB-C headphones are fully compatible with our USB-C port control feature with the default Charging-only while locked node. It allows the existing connection to continue while locked but disables new USB connections immediately and then fully disables USB when the headphones are disconnected. It does reduce security compared to not using it through keeping USB data partially active after locking while it's in use, but only while in use and data is fully disabled immediately as soon as it's unplugged. New connections are also blocked immediately after locking including at a hardware level, not just a software level. The USB-C controller in Pixels supports blocking the new connections at a hardware level while keeping existing connections working and has disabling data completely as a separate thing we can do once the existing connections end. It also has the option to fully disable it for even charging, which is quite useful since USB-PD isn't simple.

                                              Analog audio jacks going away is simply something you're going to have to accept as part of devices becoming more modern in the same way that laptops rarely have an Ethernet port anymore despite that being more secure than exposing Wi-Fi attack surface. Phones also don't have Ethernet ports but you can still use Ethernet if you really want to via USB-C in the same way you can still use wired headphones. Dedicated charging ports on laptops are also going away and being replaced by USB-C charging. USB-C technically supports up to 240W power being supplied... Dedicated display outputs are also being replaced with USB-C via DisplayPort alternate mode. This is simply how things are going. Eventually there will probably be no ports on devices... By then, hopefully all the firmware and driver code is in a memory safe language combined with far better exploit mitigations and fuzzing, etc.

                                                  ignition VPNs are per-profile and it's no different with Private Space. Private Space is essentially a replacement for managing a work profile with a local device management app. It can be used alongside it and has better integration for local usage.

                                                    NightSky
                                                    Bars are nonsense, look up the real signal strength is settings > about phone > SIM status slot n

                                                    Disregard if you were looking for bars for WiFi only. I’m not too clear on which signal strength you want bars for, WiFi or cellular.