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MoonshineMidnight I mean, I'm not asking you to stop using Signal. If Signal really wants someone's number, they can log from the RAM. And "Independent Audits" aren't done daily, So they can obviously collect the phone number of some user and then delete any evidence.

    [deleted]

    Not saying you're wrong because it's actually true, but based on this logic you could say that for almost every service out there.

    You are correct though because if they wanted to they could make modifications server side and possibly log what they wanted.

    [deleted] Then why did they not hand over the IP when the FBI issued a subpoena for that and all sorts of other user info?

    MoonshineMidnight I mentioned my solution

    No, that's not what I am asking. I am asking what your solution would have been if you were in Proton's position regarding handing over IP address and device information or shut down your service.

      router99 Shut down Proton Mail, VPN, Drive and Pass over over this? Proton's ToS state they abide by all lawful court orders. A swiss court ordered them hand over something they had access to. I'm sorry the activist was not tech savvy, but I knew to sign-up and use Proton Mail with an always on VPN with kill switch. By its nature, e2e email providers using PGP can't mask you IP. They don't store your IP, but with PGP it is easily accessed for a specific email address. Proton has been consistent with this and stated so on their blog several times. It is against their ToS to use Proton services for illegal purposes and Proton has stated they will abide by lawful Swiss court orders for unlawful use of Proton services. Proton has also fought its share of court orders as not being valid.

        spiral Oz guv is working hard to makes laws that force encryption backdoors. Stupid Idea. Session - and every other tech company will just leave Australia for a country that won't be doing this, and their tech industry will collapse, along with the ensuing taxes they collect. In the U.S., the guv just hacks into the internet backbone and violates your First and Fourth Amendment rights, but e2e works around that.

          MoonshineMidnight

          I know, that's why I was questioning why that person was saying no to signal but yes to session

          MoonshineMidnight Yes... when asked about this, Proton stated - as you indicated - that they will follow court orders and hand over information they had access to.
          IIRC, they also wrote that if users connect to them through the TOR network, they will have access to nothing.

          [deleted] . If I really want to hang out with someone, a true friend will reply to a text message. People who limit contact just because I don't have social media aren't worth having as friends in my view.

          • [deleted]

          i use and like Molly (for signal) and Threema

          13 days later

          AlanZ Threema doesnt have PFS and the messages don't delete on a timer, not my app of choice.
          BTW I don't understand whats the whole problem with "Signal & phone number", if you are unable to obtain a nameless Sim card, install signal with it, put a PIN registration lock and dispose the sim that maybe you shouldn't use Signal at all.

            Dangor
            I am perfectly capable of doing this, I choose not to, because I resent it. Maybe the difference will dawn on you, give it time, seems like you need it.

              AlanZ
              Then just don't use signal.
              I don't like pepsi so I drink cola, I don't tell pepsi to change its ingredients and make bad marketing about them. Its a free market.
              P.s I don't drink either, keeping a healthy lifestyle :D

              .

                8 days later

                MaxPower they claim PFS is achieved because they use TLS (which is kind of true but far from ideal). Their message cryptosystem itself does not achieve perfect forward secrecy.