• Dde0u

    • Post #244

    AlphaElwedritsch You only need a single app that you are dependent on. Be it a bank, insurance company or government app. It doesn't matter, just a single one that doesn't work.
    And then the whole GOS is gone. Or any other (security) custom ROM. No matter which one.
    GOS can't do anything about it either. The problem lies at the core.
    Then you just have to switch to stock. No matter what the cost.

    Or carry a second device, which is something some users already do. We know this because of posts from users about carrying around a mobile hotspot plus a GrapheneOS phone.

    Obviously that would be a major inconvenience, and it is possible that many current GrapheneOS users might switch back to the stock OS. But each of those users would be choosing to do that instead of carrying a second device.

        de0u I'm not sure what benefits there might be in carrying two devices, one with stock software and Google services and the other with GrapheneOS, at least in terms of privacy, since with the first one you are exposing your privacy to Google and probably to others, even if you use GrapheneOS on the other device.

          • Dde0u

            • Post #246

            cdflasdkesalkjfkdfkjsdajfd GOS devels has the ability to remove these limitations, at least temporally, but it seems has decided to do not do anything, either optionally.

            I believe the GrapheneOS official account has publicly stated multiple times that they are in discussion with at least one regulatory agency. Personally I would not describe that as "decided to do not do anything".

              • N1b

                • Post #247

                cdflasdkesalkjfkdfkjsdajfd Revolut login is working on crDroid independently of the app version.
                I'm not ROM developer but pretty sure the code used by crDroid can be used at GOS or any other Android based ROM

                These "solutions" usually mean rooting your phone or spoofing IDs. Both don't make sense as a sustainable approach. Security concerns aside, there are enough ways to figure out the true OS and block it anyways.

                GOS, being focused on security, privacy and sustainability, won't likely put effort into such strategies. This is what I like about them: No bullshit and theater, only proven and reliable features.

                This one is entirely on Google for their market consolidation strategies and Revolut for their laziness. Both try to hide it as security concerns, and both are easily refuted.

                I'm not speaking for GOS, only from my simple user perspective.

                    • Zzzz

                      • Post #248

                      cdflasdkesalkjfkdfkjsdajfd GOS devels has the ability to remove these limitations, at least temporally, but it seems has decided to do not do anything

                      Not quite true:

                      We're going to be adding a toggle for blocking the Play Integrity API in a way that acts as if the service is currently down. We've found that many apps do not correctly use it and still allow using the app if it's unavailable because their service only has soft enforcement of the Play Integrity API. It's possible this will be enough to get Revolut working but we don't know at this point. They're going out of the way to try banning using alternate OSes and can upgrade that over time.

                      https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/113737931425144006

                      Note that it will be a game of cat and mouse though. Every step an alternate OS takes to work around it, will create an incentive for big G and app devs to step up restrictions.

                      Its a game that they would eventually win, if they were motivated enough to do so.

                      A legal solution would be the only long-term one.

                        Great Revolut doesn't even allow their app to work on Bluestack nor NoxPlayer...
                        There is no really alternative for now but spreading the message how outrageous this is.
                        I gave a negative review on Google Play, talked to them directly in the app : same result as always...

                        What solutions do we have ? A petition ? organise a demonstration ? or just wait for God to actually change devs' mind and remove this stupid Play Integrity API ?

                        N1b the crDroid alternative is working without root and, if you want a "philosophical" answer: Nothing in life is forever ;)

                            cdflasdkesalkjfkdfkjsdajfd Nothing in life is forever ;)

                            Perhaps, but in this case it's clear that the workaround you are suggesting will only work within a very limited timeframe. Personally I don't see the point of trying to work around a block just to have the workaround stop functioning next month.

                            Personally, I'm hopeful that a legislative ban of this monopolistic system will be implemented in the end. At least in the EU, its history shows that they do not tend to shy away from regulating monopolistic business behaviour.

                                fid02 Personally, I'm hopeful that a legislative ban of this monopolistic system will be implemented in the end. At least in the EU, its history shows that they do not tend to shy away from regulating monopolistic business behaviour.

                                Keep dreaming ;)

                                    cdflasdkesalkjfkdfkjsdajfd Keep dreaming ;)

                                    If the definition of "dreaming" includes something that has not yet happened but that might come to pass in the future, then sure, I'll keep "dreaming". You are free to keep repeatedly implying that it's never going to happen, but so far, I have not been convinced by any arguments in this thread.

                                      • N1b

                                        • Post #254
                                        • Edited

                                        I like Revolut and would prefer using it in the future.

                                        We as the end users have more power than most people think. Many things have changed for the better because users collectively demanded it and because talented people started delivering solutions. Look at the right to repair movement, look at Linux, Wikipedia, VLC, Signal, Bitcoin. And of course look at GrapheneOS.

                                        None of these things happen because of pessimists giving up. Let's do our part and maybe enjoy the change it might create.

                                        Last but not least: Being a proactive optimist means living a happier live. That alone makes it worth trying for me.

                                        Are there a lot of popular apps that use this play integrity APIs? Or is it mostly banking apps?
                                        Should we be concerned that this may become a widespread thing?

                                        • de0u replied to this.

                                          traveller Are there a lot of popular apps that use this play integrity APIs?

                                          So far it seems to be mostly some bank apps and some medical-device apps. Here is a (partial) list: Apps banning GrapheneOS.

                                          traveller Should we be concerned that this may become a widespread thing?

                                          On the one hand, it does seem to be a direction that Google is encouraging app developers to move. On the other hand, it does not seem particularly consistent with the direction that EU regulators have been forcing companies to move.

                                          "It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future" (source).

                                              While Revolut doesn't work, I tried to use an emulator, but https://imgur.com/a/T1QF0sW, also cap.
                                              I'm thinking about a virtual machine inside the phone, will it work?

                                              I had no issues until yesterday, when I tried to create a new one-time debit card. That was kinda weird, because after trying to see the card details, the app asked me to log in again and took a picture of my face. Seems like the debit card request started the problem for me.
                                              Now, I have no access to my crypto and can't sell when the time comes, which is clearly a hostile act on behalf of Revolut - it causes real financial damage.
                                              Revolut web app has almost no functionality w/o the app confirmation or the push confirmation.
                                              I see only two solutions:

                                              1. Revolut enables GOS again
                                              2. I install the stupid app on another phone only to move my money away and remove the account.

                                                focalor yes the webapp with email confirmation in stead of push does not even show your balance, really q joke.

                                                  I have just skimmed through the last few comments and as it seem, GrapheneOS + Revolut is still a no-go, right?

                                                  To be clear, the Revolut apps detecting that they are running on a custom ROM during the login phase has nothing to do with the usual suspects, especially it has nothing to do with:

                                                  • Play Integrity / SafetyNet
                                                  • a certain string (like "lineage") in the Build Number
                                                  • microG
                                                  • unlocked bootloader
                                                  • enabled developer or debugging settings
                                                  • SELinux

                                                  I have tried several different ROMs on my POCO X3 NFC and the only one that works with the Revolut apps is crDroid, so if someone with the required knowledge and time could find out what they are doing differently, there may be hope.

                                                    MasterOne crDroid is doing temporary workarounds to spoof the Play Integrity API device integrity level which is not a reliable or long term solution. It's something we could do and then we'll get endless rounds of people saying it stopped working when something changes, followed by substantial resources going into it again and again only to have it eventually stop working at all. It would take the place of a large amount of our privacy and security work. Counterintuitively, sandboxed Google Play also makes it harder to pretend it's the stock OS on a device rather than easier since it's easy for it to see how restricted it is and the way they do the weak software attestation for device integrity enforcement is super naive which makes it easiest to bypass in an OS doing away with the security model.