Now that the Pixel 9 is out and reports indicate it has the new Satellite tracking feature "for emergencies", I wanted to prepare a thread to allow the GOS developers to confirm once & for all whether or not airplane mode completely blocks any satellite tracking capabilities.
Before there was quite a good deal of speculation here, even from the mods, but now that the phone is out, the GOS developers can hopefully put this to rest.
Thank you to all who supported me drilling down on this.
Places uncovered by cell towers are rare today (Aside from buildings).
The good thing about the satellite emergency call, is criminals don't have jammer today for this kind of signal. So it could be a good rescue option in some critical situations.
Totally not how it works.
Google partnered with Garmin for that:
https://www.gsmarena.com/google_has_partnered_with_garmin_and_skylo_for_the_emergency_sos_feature_on_the_pixel_9_series-news-64139.php
This is a paid service by Garmin, on devices called inReach, to send you some assistance like a helicopter
in case you are trapped somewhere. Or in situations like the movies "127 hours". Basically you call a Garmin
representative and tell them your (life threatening) emergency. Depending on the country they send a team
for you, and that will usually cost 5-6 figures.
Nobody cares about crime with that service, you won't call Garmin because someone stole your car, this is
not the use case here. Also it would be a paid service obviously, and only relevant to US/CA.
GeorgeSoros There's no such thing as a "Satellite tracking feature" included. The new devices support using a form of cellular service via satellites for emergencies. Even airplane mode isn't needed to avoid this.
GeorgeSoros The article linked by 23Sha-ger indicates that Garmin's emergency staff will be handling the messages, which will be carried by Skylo's geostationary system, which relies on a small tweaks to regular LTE.
Based on that information, there is no special tracking infrastructure. If the LTE modem is off, the phone can't talk to the satellite.
At this point it would be welcome if we could avoid repeated speculation about how maybe something unspecified about satellites could threaten something unspecified about privacy. If there is a plausible source affirmatively explaining a specific privacy threat, that would be of interest.
Meanwhile, regular cellular networks, by design, are tracking cellular users all the time. There are literally millions of cell sites, with sectorized antenna systems and beam forming, with legal requirements about localization accuracy.
The tracking threat (if it bothers you) is on top of the nearest apartment building, not in geosynch orbit. That system is tracking Pixel 9s, Pixel 8s, Pixel 7s, Pixel 6s, EOL Pixel 5s and 4s, Samsung phones, Fairphones, iPhones, etc.
To be clear, when there is an emergency, that tracking system saves lives. And when there isn't an emergency, that system delivers lots of bits per second to lots of devices.
It also won't initially be included in GrapheneOS because it appears to be a Google service implemented by a Google app. We would have to go out of the way to add special support for it.
Hope to see it implemented eventually. One of the reasons I'm buying the Pixel 9 is how often I'm out of cell coverage, looking forward to SOS capabilities even if I need to log into a Google Play enabled profile.
de0u To be clear, when there is an emergency, that tracking system saves lives. And when there isn't an emergency, that system delivers lots of bits per second to lots of devices.
And this is precisely how people give up their freedoms. Always for additional "safety" etc.
All I want to know is:
a) Will GoS have this feature?
It seems the "GrapheneOS" mod seems to be suggesting it will likely not.
b) Does GoS airplane mode definitely prevent the satellite function (however you define it) as well as e911 tracking from being activated in an "emergency"?
GrapheneOS It also won't initially be included in GrapheneOS because it appears to be a Google service
Please don't include it. If folks want to have 24/7 sat connection everywhere on earth, just let them go stock Pixel. It would go against GoS user base purpose.
GeorgeSoros There's no such thing supported by Pixels. The stock Pixel OS feature is a cellular connection made via the cellular radio for use with emergency calls. The support for these networks is a standard cellular radio feature and not something Pixel specific. The only thing specific to the stock Pixel OS at this time is they worked out an arrangement for emergency calls which doesn't require people subscribing to something. You don't understand the feature at all and you're fearmongering about it. It's a violation of the forum rules.
a) Will GoS have this feature?
The feature you think exists does not exist, so no, and not even the stock Pixel OS has that.
b) Does GoS airplane mode definitely prevent the satellite function (however you define it) as well as e911 tracking from being activated in an "emergency"?
On the stock Pixel OS, that's not relevant since it isn't used without specifically activating it. By making an emergency call, you're explicitly asking to disable airplane mode. If you don't want to make an emergency call, don't make an emergency call.
We've already been clear that GrapheneOS doesn't currently support this and that we would need to go out of the way to implement support for installing it and enabling it if we wanted to do that. It's not currently something we plan to do but it wouldn't negatively impact you for us to implement support for people who want to use it doing that. Not clear what issue you have with people being able to choose to use a feature.
GeorgeSoros Does GoS airplane mode definitely prevent the satellite function (however you define it) as well as e911 tracking from being activated in an "emergency"?
Here are recent posts about emergency calls versus airplane mode:
As long as "the satellite function" does not ship for GrapheneOS that part of the question is unanswerable.
GeorgeSoros It would go against GoS user base purpose.
As defined by you personally? I think the opinions of some other people, especially the folks with little lightning bolts on their avatars, might be relevant also.
Then better get a proper dedicated satcom device and don't rely on Google's gimmicks:
https://www.treelinereview.com/gearreviews/best-personal-locator-beacons
https://www.adventurealan.com/best-satellite-communicator-zoleo-vs-inreach/
Also while the Pixel will last 2-3 days without charge, those things go for weeks.
On the user side Google Messages app need to be set as the default messaging app.
Probably to also confirm the service is under a valid period contract.
Totally not how it works.
I can't imagine the service refusing your call because your are under a criminal attack and you call for help. The main problem is the time needed to fix steady the right satellite.
you won't call Garmin because someone stole your car
Yes for that purpose theft satellite trackers already exist for premium cars.
Also it would be a paid service obviously, and only relevant to US/CA.
Free for the first two years. USA only at first launch. The Skylo coverage is already more than one country and they will continue to expand (https://www.skylo.tech/resources/geographical-coverage).
GrapheneOS Not clear what issue you have with people being able to choose to use a feature.
I have no problem with anyone wanting to use a feature like that, but my concern is when they want to shoehorn in all these latest tracking features into a privacy phone/OS. These types should just go stock IMO. GoS has a privacy reputation; its brand is to protect people from invasive surveillance.
Honest question: do you or the GoS team in general consider when determining what features to enable, that there have in the past been privacy violations on the part of governments (especially UK, Germany and Australia)?
For instance people that politely declined to take Covid vaccines for personal reasons were deemed "threats" by their current governments who partnered with phone companies to track dissidents based on an emergency justification. Or take journalists in hostile regimes. This is not political, but simply realistic and prudent.
The less tracking capabilities, the better. You may be right that I don't fully understand the satellite feature, but I would implore you to consider how features can be remotely (by pegasus type incursions) "turned on" if deemed "a threat", per Ed S.
All I ask is that the GoS team consider these things as they work to bring people back their electronic freedoms and privacy.
Thank you.
Despite many attempts over multiple weeks to explain how this works and that OP's idea about how it works is flawed, it doesn't seem like any explanation we can offer will be enough. A temporary suspension has been issued which will become permanent if this doesn't change in the future.
It is fine to not understand everything, but please try to respect the team's time when they provide an explanation. This specific topic has had hours wasted on it at this point, and we keep circling back to imaginary threats stemming from a misunderstanding of how the feature works.
