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  • tempted to transition from GOS to iOS

Good video link @N1b [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ9LR8homt4], it hits on my priorities. And that's what use of GOS comes down to - priorities. Mine preclude use of an Apple ecosystem:

  1. Priority: an open platform without restriction to apps and information. With Apple you use apps at their pleasure and they have an ongoing record of censorship. Many of the apps I use are not available in the apple/google stores. With GOS I'll have better access to information when further censorship pressures are exerted by the state.

  2. Priority: freedom from government surveillance. I believe we have the right to be free from tracking/profiling from the state without due cause and warrant. Yet big tech companies including Google and Apple collude with the state and violate this right.

GOS does not magically achieve the priorities alone, but through judicious setup and use it provides a better feature/risk
profile and fulfills my priorities much better than other platforms. Thanks for the video.

N1b The more you buy into Apple, the harder it will be to leave if they do something contrary to your values or needs.

brn I think the main thing that hasn't been discussed here that is highly relevant is that with everything under one account/ecosystem (Apple)

I couldn't agree more. One single account for everything tied to my name and address, and more and more well working devices and services from Apple stuffing data into that account and my increasing dependency on one big company made me change my mind and leave Apple behind. I haven't fully achieved this goal, but I am on my way and GOS is part of this way.

      Relaks

      GrapheneOS includes all of the features of Lockdown Mode

      I know. I am not willing to switch only because there is Lockdown on iOS. I know that GrapheneOS is better than Lockdown mode on iOS (more granular and more comprehensive and just more secure). I didn't say that Lockdown mode made it possible to do anything impossible on GrapheneOS.

          ZorroV999 Lockdown Mode was mentioned in the first sentence of your post. I interpreted the sentence to be a list of features that iOS provides but that GrapheneOS does not. I replied to that in order to clarify this, in case other users had the impression that Lockdown Mode provides special security features that GrapheneOS lacks.

              Relaks

              a list of features that iOS provides but that GrapheneOS does not

              it was just a list of features that iOS provides.

                Yeah... A lot of times I was tempted to switch to iPhone. Why? Mostly because "it just works" + still reasonably secure and private.

                Why I haven't switched (yet)? Because GOS is arguably more secure and certainty more private, and gives you more freedom. Things like Network permissions, MTE, user profiles and decent apps like FairEmail just don't exist on iOS. That's among many other benefits of GOS of cause.

                At the same time, some apps or features just don't work or work poorly on GOS, which at times of frustration, bring me back at questioning whether using an iPhone would just make my life easier. Yet I resist.

                  DeletedUser115 At the same time, some apps or features just don't work or work poorly on GOS, which at times of frustration, bring me back at questioning whether using an iPhone would just make my life easier.

                  I also considered getting an Iphone, especially when Lockdown Mode was released. Sadly, it's not something I end up using in practice. The fact that it's all or nothing isn't practical in the slightest. Some websites look terrible with it enabled, so I have to opt-out of most sites anyway. If they could just allow me to opt-out of the font protection on all websites + allow me to download PDFs, I would happily use it.

                  But that's probably not happening.

                  Honestly, if you can live with using half-baked browsers, mediocre keyboards and being locked in then go for an Iphone. They are probably great for people that use their phones for Instagram and similar stuff.

                  Personally, I'm sticking with GrapheneOS and Android in general because of the choices. If I dislike the stock keyboard, I can get Gboard. If I dislike the stock launcher, I can get Niagara or Nova. If I dislike the browser I have dozens to choose from, etc.

                      iOS is quite robust in a way and is surely suitable for many users, for my part I refuse to use an iPhone mainly for one reason: I don't like the iOS user experience at all, as soon as I have an iPhone in my hands I have difficulty using it, in fact, I'd choose Android Google Stock 100 times over because navigation is much more consistent for me, just doing file transfers between iOS and Windows is complicated unless you use MacOS.

                      Apple also locks you into a walled garden, imposes their services on you, requires you to create an account and makes privacy protection their marketing, add to that their very expensive rates, all of which together mean I never plan to buy one.

                      Humorist6543

                      I have considered this many times, but my reasons are of a completely different nature.
                      Let's start with what I find annoying about Android:

                      1. The GUI inconsistencies - as a hardcore OCD, this is driving me crazy, for example:
                        If you change the icon of an app (from within the app itself), the changed icon only shows on your desktop and in the app drawer, but look in "Settings -> Apps" and you will see the the app icon there is unchanged😡. Same thing if I look in, for example, Obtanium - shows the default app icon, not the one you changed it too. This drives me nuts. Same thing with icon packs - always a partial, patchy solution. Not the case on iOS - you change an app's icon - it changes literary everywhere throughout the OS!
                        I hate the color white and GOS really did a nasty trick on me turning all the default icons glaring white! Also, I find the sometimes decades old icons of system apps (yes I do go there: Settings -> Apps -> Show System) nauseating to look at. In iOS, no matter how deep you look, there is consistency - all app icons are modern, nice looking, the same throughout the layers of the OS.
                        In Android, no amount of half abandoned, gimmicky launchers can compare to Springboard - and I realize that Springboard has only a fraction of the functionality of Android launchers.

                      2. The hardware - well, the iPhone definitely beats the Pixel here - I love the titanium frame, but much more importantly - the Qualcomm modem! The Pixel's Exynos is simply an embarrassment!

                      3. The ecosystem - I have a Mac, (tried Linux a number of times, absolute no-go, death by a thousand papercuts.) an AppleTV and soon probably a Vision Pro, so I am in the ecosystem, for better or for worse.

                      However...

                      Let's go over the positives of GOS/Android:
                      True lack of spyware - I consider Apple to be ameliorated spyware, but spyware nonetheless.
                      GOS has been superb in rebuilding Android without any Google software and then offering an elegant and secure way to reintegrate it at will for folks who want it.
                      The choice to install any app you want. I have despised iOS for years on that front and still do. The idea that some jerk at Apple can decide what app I can install is truly nauseating.
                      The really cool Easter egg of GOS - the ability to turn off ALL Wireless Emergency Alerts.

                      And much, much more! So, I am staying with (and donating to) GrapheneOS. It is a project well worth supporting.

                        I'm sorry buddy to tell you this but Apple is the most scummy company I've ever encountered, and no, this is not a fanboy reaction or a smear campaign towards Apple.

                        Here are some examples by The Hated One;
                        Apple Is Terrible for Your Privacy
                        https://youtu.be/r38Epj6ldKU&t=0
                        Android is more private than the iPhone
                        https://youtu.be/nQ9LR8homt4&t=0
                        Apple Has a Slavery Problem
                        https://youtu.be/5yqRZo4usjk&t=0
                        How Tim Cook Surrendered Apple to the Chinese Government
                        https://youtu.be/Ev9_oDHNf-4&t=0
                        Don't Believe Apple's Privacy Grandstanding
                        https://youtu.be/shxTTon5lfs&t=0
                        iPhone's Security Is More Broken Than You Think
                        https://youtu.be/zvTKikwUMRg&t=0

                        I once bought an MP3 player from them, (forgot the name, it was before the iPod) a long time ago, it was a dreadful experience...
                        Their not-so UniversalSB did not work with my Playstation 3, (I ripped my own CDs on it) and had to resort to using iTunes, had to purchase a special headphone that had the "remote" in it.
                        I then understood why the MP3 player itself was so cheap, it is like those printers with ink cardridges, a scam and waste om money.
                        They also pushed for client side scanning.
                        Their E2EE is only mildly implemented. (See videos)
                        They gave iCloud of Chinese users to China, they limit the amount of messages for Hong Kong protesters from using iChat, or whatever it is called.
                        Sorry for the hate towards them, but they don't care one bit about privacy, only about their own money, whatever the cost.
                        While Cook enjoys his billions, his slaves now have nets to prevent them from suicide.
                        Putting all of my trust in Apples closed walled prison is the worst thing I can imagine doing, absolutely no offence.

                        Pocketstar
                        They do have good arguments, but they offer no viable alternative. And no, getting a Thinkpad is not an acceptable alternative to a MacBook Pro for me. Love Richard Stallman to death, but I just can't put myself through this torture. Maybe Asahi Linux would be an acceptable solution one day, fingers crossed.

                            I'm very tempted to go the other way. One major reason for this is that I'm not at all happy at having facial recognition hardware on a device, and sooner or later Apple is bound to abandon fingerprint readers on all iPhones. Eventually, even if it's not already, the facial recognition hardware will be used to gather data for advertising purposes about whoever's using the device. I'm sure that age/gender/mood/attention etc. data would be very much desired by advertisers. I trust Apple to preserve my privacy only whilst they think there's money in them claiming to do so.
                            There are still a few issues to sort out before the switch, such as finding a good replacement for Apple's health app (and ideally transferring data) and waiting for RCS support on iPhones.

                              4 months later

                              Humorist6543 above all Advanced Data Protection

                              ADP is a major step forward, but please read Apple's own documentation on it, it is very easy to switch inadvertently to the less secure Standard Protection, for example when using Sharing:

                              Security implications of sharing and collaboration

                              "In most cases, when users share content to collaborate with each other—for example, with shared Notes, shared Reminders, shared folders in iCloud Drive, or iCloud Shared Photo Library—and all the users have Advanced Data Protection turned on, Apple servers are used only to establish sharing but don’t have access to the encryption keys for the shared data. The content remains end-to-end encrypted and accessible only on participants’ trusted devices. For each sharing operation, a title and representative thumbnail may be stored by Apple with standard data protection to show a preview to the receiving users.

                              Selecting the “anyone with a link” option when enabling collaboration will make the content available to Apple servers under standard data protection, as the servers need to be able to provide access to anyone who opens the URL.

                              iWork collaboration and the Shared Albums feature in Photos don’t support Advanced Data Protection. When users collaborate on an iWork document, or open an iWork document from a shared folder in iCloud Drive, the encryption keys for the document are securely uploaded to iWork servers in Apple data centers. This is because real-time collaboration in iWork requires server-side mediation to coordinate document changes between participants. Photos added to Shared Albums are stored with standard data protection, as the feature permits albums to be publicly shared on the web."

                              One small slip and there will be cloudside scanning of your Photos.

                                Having just experienced this myself - some people (with deep pockets or state actors) are infecting iPhones with malware en masse right now. Lockdown mode doesn't do anything. Apple devices are just a too large target nowadays it seems. I could never go back.

                                • de0u replied to this.

                                  Another datapoint: Even old android devices with lineage are safer. Smaller target -> less off-the-shelf zero days.

                                    hardballs Having just experienced this myself - some people (with deep pockets or state actors) are infecting iPhones with malware en masse right now.

                                    What is meant by "en masse"? If the number of comprised devices qualifies as massive, it should be possible to cite a source?

                                        de0u I'm referring to the velocity. I don't know if it already happened on a massive scale. The malware seems to be able to spread via hijacked connections to apple servers and they did it from privileged network positions. Even going through another iPhone's hotspot got it reinfected. Thanks to apple for making such a mess of background connections.. Like getting root certs from random seeming Akamai hosts (not within "their" IP block). I've seen enough. Still kept an infected phone and MacBook but now it's dormant or has been remotely wiped.