TRInvictus So issues, change requests, etc. posted here in this forum, are generally being ignored?

No, we do not ignore them. However, if you take a look at how we structure our tags on the forum here https://discuss.grapheneos.org/tags verses the labels on our os-issue-tracker https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/labels you may notice that the actual work is all done via our GitHub.

For example, feature requests are labelled as enhancements here https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/labels/enhancement

So, the appropriate platform to attempt to do a feature request/enhancement, would be where our developers are primarily spending their time, which is GitHub.

Please, always search our issue trackers prior to opening a new issue, more than likely there is a similar one already, and this avoids duplicates.

At least by GOS "officials"?

We may discuss these matters in user posted threads, redirect to proper issue-trackers on our project, link to specific issue #'s, etc.

Edit: Meant to start of by saying that I'm adding onto what other8026 already mentioned.

@akc3n @other8026
Thank you both for replying. I do comprehend, sadly there aren't enough very very smart guys out there able, and willing, to contribute to GOS.
And hey we all do understand you're working hard and foccussed on "IPC control" we're all soooo much looking forward to :-) Thank you all for your work, very much appreciated!

10 days later

I seen on the social X some profiles are taken by the project to avoid impersonators. Is there some kind of signature to prove a profile is genuine ?

    other8026 Yes this remains the easier solution without the need of any technical skills.

    17 days later

    GrapheneOS I guess I'm going to have to ask why XMPP isn't in the list, and why it wasn't chosen over Matrix and Discord?

    @riddlemethis Their reasoning for not using XMPP was explained (in detail) on Mastodon when they first announced their decision for adding Discord to the list.

    5 days later

    Very understandable decision.

    I think Matrix, SimpleX and XMPP with proper defaults be reliable and only private options.

    Matrix is overcomplex compared to XMPP and SimpleX is the most private. As you mentioned spam I dont recommend a publicly announced SimpleX group as the purpose of SimpleX is "no identifiers" which would make fighting Spam impossible.

    Never used Matrix before. How to use it? What client to use? Does it require phone number or email to use it?

      Is there a link to the mastodon thread on why discord was chosen over xmpp as a matrix replacement?

      Last I checked, xmpp scales pretty well with users relative to matrix.

      One con I can see is with xmpp you can't delete messages, but outside of that, xmpp has a pretty robust moderation system.

        nemo yeah there was no helpful links shared, so after manually hunting it down, all I could find was a Matrix article linked in Mastodon citing mutual similarities. No explicit XMPP commentaries that I saw

        XMPP is still a great potential IMO

        nemo One con I can see is with xmpp you can't delete messages

        I was not a member of the moderation team when it was decided. I was not involved in any discussions about it, so keep this in mind. I have also never used XMPP so I know virtually nothing about it.

        However, if deleting messages isn't supported, that would be an instant deal breaker if you ask me. It's just not acceptable to leave certain things up for the whole community to see.

        There are many people who've moved to Discord and many have said that they moved to Discord because it's a better experience overall.

        Many people have issues with Discord because they don't want to provide their phone number. I personally signed up while connected to a VPN, I used a SimpleLogin email alias, and I haven't been asked for a phone number. Servers can set their "verification level" to "highest" (documentation), which would require that members provide their phone number, but our server doesn't have it set up that way.

        Regardless, all of this isn't all that important considering all messages are still bridged across Discord, Matrix, Telegram, and IRC. Feel free to pick your favorite and participate from there.

          ErnestThornhill Whitelisted XMPP server federstion might be a reasonable consideration in that scenario. Starting from zero and controlling vetting additions onward for example.

            other8026 I prefer to think principally on this. I'd rather deal with the outcomes and consequences of creating free open privacy respecting spaces using liberating options. Rather than .. more or less .. misaligning and conflating philosophy and core intentions.

            GOS is the betterment affecting and forging positive change. Nobel. Innovating and empowering sovereignty, privacy, security etc. If there was suddenly then a decision made to go use one of Google or Microsoft's platforms for collaboration, that conflicts every fibre of my being.

            Example is GOS about Discourse. Might be cute, functional and familiar. But I wouldn't have made that choice personally foundationally. It's owned by one entity, all logged (yes can soft delete), censorship is practiced, and they can ultimately decide if you are welcome tomorrow or not.

            Long story short, I just prefer the totally sovereign and independent alternatives in the pursuit of creating an ecosystem that changes stronghold norms.

            Mentality being as such. I acknowledge the considerations of the different methodologies.

              riddlemethis As the community manager for the project, along with having been a community moderator for a very long time now, let me give you my perspective:

              When I first started engaging with the GrapheneOS community a number of years ago, I created a Matrix account just to be able to speak in the GrapheneOS rooms. This is not an uncommon occurrence in our community, and I would say that if we were to take a poll, the percentage of people who made a Matrix account just for GrapheneOS and don't use it for anything else would be surprising.

              I can understand the "principled" position, but there are many other factors to consider if you want to create a solid community. Matrix has horrid moderation tools, critical state-breaking issues that have led to room bricks, etc. This has greatly impacted our community through having to re-create the rooms after a brick many times, along with long-time helpful community members deciding to leave due to being exposed to graphic materials by people attacking the project because all we could do is remove it as soon as possible; the lack of moderation tools didn't give us any serious proactive options.

              Matrix was chosen because that's where the community already was after IRC stopped being the main platform for the project. It's still offered as an option to this day, as is IRC, Telegram, and more recently, Discord.

              Discord in a few months has grown immensely. It's a space where members can be shielded from the attacks, and also lowers friction as a great number of people already have pre-existing and long-established Discord accounts, which is not going to realistically be the case for Matrix or XMPP.

              Adding more options on top of Matrix wouldn't make sense if the options that were added did not address the problems that we were dealing with on Matrix in the first place. Matrix remains an option, but by also offering Discord, we're offering people the chance to use something familiar, lowering the bar to entry, along with something that allows us to uphold the standards of protecting our community that we want.

              GrapheneOS is useful to people when they get to use it. Let's not make the community surrounding it obscure. Extending a welcome to people on a platform that's not only better in terms of being resistant to attacks but also familiar is a good thing, not a bad thing.

              As things stand, we would prefer to not have to host something else, and even if we had the capacity to host something else, it would have to be something that would solve issues instead of just creating different problems without a clear benefit.

              I hope the above provides some context behind the thought process.

              other8026 Sad to hear, but understandable. To be fair though, matrix doesn't support deleting messages either, as last I checked it all depends on an honor system between servers (which is to be expected when federation happens).

              I'm not up to date with matrix client features, but if there are matrix clients that store messages locally, then matrix has the same message retention problem as xmpp (and irc).

              -
              riddlemethis You might not even have to go that far, you can have an xmpp muc be silent without voice out of the box and manually whitelist people that request voice. To cut down on the spam, have a certain time period before granting voice. You can also drop certain messages that match a specific keyword before they reach the muc (xmpp is pretty robust!).

              -
              Another thing to note too is the more platforms you support, the more resources it takes to manage everything (not sure by how much, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was exponential). So I understand the fact that the grapheneos community simply can't create a bridge to every protocol under the sun.

              I'm just sad that xmpp didn't make the cut while discord did :melting_face:

              -
              I'm very glad though that irc is still an option, even though I'm not as comfortable knowing that my messages are being relayed to discord (which doesn't affect me as much because I mainly lurk).

                16 days later