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  • Post #4
  • Edited

yore I think, in the privacy community, it is mostly agreed upon that MacOS is better in terms of privacy than Windows. From my experience, it is also easier and more straightforward to disable telemetry in MacOS settings
than in Windows. In my opinion, if you disable all telemetry and personalization toggles in MacOS and not link your MacBook to an Apple ID or use iCloud, your Mac will be reasonably private. You can also consider using something like NextDNS to block other MacOS telemetry that is not covered by toggles in the settings.

If you don't mind me asking, why would you not want to use Linux for university? I read that some universities have their own servers that you remotely connect to and use from any device, eliminating the need for students to worry about which operating system they are running. It would be a good idea to contact your chosen university and see what they recommend for your course.

Note: Not connecting an Apple ID to your MacBook will not allow you to install applications from the Mac App Store, locate your device using Find My, or use Activation Lock.

  • N1b likes this.

    yore

    SmackOS has moved to more telemetry lately, and it might maybe have something to do with Apple turing their direction to selling ads and services in general. It is or was possible to block most or all with firewall.

    Windows has been a telemetry hole for a while, and will be much more so with win12. They have too much to gain with combining all your info with their ads and AI. Dunno if they will train AI on your personal stuff and behavior inside Windows.

    Both Apple and Microsoft are giants, and if they do something stupid they will get slapped hard. So in a way they will both take your stuff but also keep it mostly safe. Microsoft might dethrone Google on their hometurf in the coming years. If you dislike Google today, just you wait.

    Dualboot will solve your concerns about being compatible with your university. As de0u said; you should ask them about required software and platform for that.

      Dual boot Linux & an ameliorated version of Win10. Best solution I've found so far to run basically all software used for business, play games, and have the better Linux option available for the bulk of your activities.

      yore it really depends a lot on your situation and needs, especially with your university.

      Design and nice hardware like the Apple ARM CPUs aside, there's little reason to use a Macbook in my opinion. Regarding your questions:

      1. The least phoning home after most Linux distributions, from what I researched, would be Windows 10 LTSC, but licenses are hard to come by. The Enterprise or Education license should give you enough control though and be next in line. This is followed by MacOS which has some more and easier to turn off privacy settings. Because people tend to cut Apple more slack, here's a warning: Apple does mostly privacy theater and will collect and sell your data just like Microsoft and Google, they intend to increase their ad revenues a lot and got caught not respecting privacy toggles in their own apps, I have linked sources in other threads but I'm too tired now to research them. Just be careful not to fall for their marketing and rather listen to what they tell their investors. The popular last place goes to Windows Home or Professional where you're simply not in charge of many telemetry settings. I'd personally dual boot a good simple Linux like Fedora or Mint with Windows 10 Education if I needed Windows or MacOS occasionally. Or buy a Framework laptop and install Linux and Windows on two of their external drives and simply swap them out as needed if that is in your budget.

      2. The privacy settings, not having an Apple ID (brew.sh will help a lot with installing and updating apps), LuLu firewall and NextDNS are your friends. Don't trust Apple to actually respect the privacy settings themselves (same goes for Microsoft of course).

      3. In my university Linux was favored for specific programing tools or stuff like LaTeX. I think there is no general, and if you're lucky your university won't require you to use Windows or MacOS or even actively discourage it.

        If someone asks this question, the answer is MacOS. The real answer is more nuanced but it's all about effort vs result tradeoff

          • [deleted]

          • Post #13

          DeletedUser115 I agree, MacOS is the most straightforward approach and would be compatible with most people's threat models.

            Personally, I'd get the x86-based laptop and go with Linux (System76 is a good route, but pricey. You can also find great deals on HP Elitebook/Dell XPS type machines on ebay, and they work fine). With this option, you can run Windows if you want, but you might not need it.

            A Mac will hamstring your options, plus I find the restrictiveness and opacity of Apple OSes to be unacceptable. With Windows, at least I can modify most settings if I really want to.

              use windows, it will make your life easier and less troubleshooting in windows realted to cybersec tools.

              I don’t think MacOS is as private as people think. Iv got Littlesnitch running on my MBP and the telemetry is pinging every few seconds even with everything “off” on the settings. Luckily you can use tools (such as little snitch) to block it.

                • [deleted]

                • Post #17

                Albatross Framework is a good option for running both Linux and Windows. I was looking into System76 but I saw too many complaints about the build quality of the device so I ultimately decided I would get a Framework laptop instead.

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                  • Post #18

                  Graphene1 How did you differentiate the telemetry from the connections essential for operating MacOS?

                      Get an x86 laptop, run Linux on it, and run Windows and x86 MacOS in a VM. If you really need to run Windows natively for some reason (a course on Windows kernel hacking or something), dual boot.

                      Apple hardware is great, but you are limited to MacOS and the Arm versions of Windows and Linux in a VM (or Linux on the metal if you go Asahi), which have their limitations. If the power efficiency isn’t critical to you, an x86 platform is more flexible in terms of both what you can run on it, and what the hardware will let you do (eg you can swap out your SSD for a bigger one).

                      If you run your ‘dangerous’ OSes in VMs, you can eg disable networking, or install dodgy apps then delete the VM/rollback to a previous snapshot, which are harder to do running natively.

                      For a cybersecurity course I’d imagine a good number of the students will be running Linux, maybe the teacher too, so I wouldn’t expect you to be unusual. Although one thing you could do is keep your current machine and then find out what machine you need once you’ve started - maybe you need a big compile box for projects, or maybe they do everything on servers and an iPad would be fine.

                        [deleted] depends what you mean by essential. I don’t use any Apple services such as iCloud, iMessage etc.

                        Iv got two profiles, one blocks all outgoing connections to Apple, the other everything other than what’s required for updates.

                        Once I week I switch to the update profile, check for updates, update if needed then switch back over to block all profile.

                            Foggy Thank you for the coherent reply that answered what I asked. For everyone, I already use Linux. This is strictly for school use only.

                            VMs are a good suggestion but they aren't perfect and they run quite slow especially with a Windows guest which I have tried.

                            My main concern is privacy and software compatibility. Trying to find the Goldilocks's zone. I guess I'll have to give it some time before the program starts.

                            • Tuba replied to this.

                                • [deleted]

                                • Post #22
                                • Edited

                                Graphene1 Are you talking about xp.apple.com? As fa as I am aware this is the domain needed for updates. By essential, I meant something like OSCP which should not be blocked as it checks if downloaded apps' certificates are revoked or not. Gatekeeper should not be blocked either. My point is, when I was running Lulu on my MacBook, there were many connections being made. I don't believe they were for telemetry purposes but background tasks that may be beneficial like OSCP and Gatekeeper that I am not familiar with. This is why I asked if you were able to tell the difference between the telemetry domains and the domains that have actual functionality.

                                  yore I would recommend getting a light linux distro, kicksecure seems good as i use it myself. On kicksecure you would have a vm, and since your host distro is so small i imagine you would have a better performance than you would with a heavy linux distro and a windows vm. I would also think about debloating your windows vm to increase the performance even further, hope that helps

                                  • yore replied to this.

                                      yore
                                      I think definitely check with the course instructors at your university. They'll tell you exactly.

                                      In my software development program they told us on day 1 of classes what kind of a system we'll need.

                                      Also i tried to go about this while trying to stay private by going linux. It was an absolute disaster. I had to quickly revert to windows.

                                      But your program might be different. A lot of security software is on windows and linux. So do check with them.

                                      Also privacy might go out the window because they'll require to quickly sign up for "this and that". Often you'll have to make a google and microsoft accounts because a lot of collaboration work is done on these very unprivate platforms. So.

                                      I'd say expect to be forced into extremely unprivate scenarios, having to sign into different services and giving email, phone number, etc; having to use google drive and docs.

                                      Make sure your laptop is at least 15" or you'll face much pain. Id say dedicate a laptop to this school work and consider it totally unprivate and use without headache. If you stress trying to be private on it you might run into a lot of headache.

                                      Lastly, if you have freedom of choice then go with the platform that you are most familiar with to eliminate extra troubleshooting headache.

                                      In my program it simply became impossible to keep with my privacy routines, going as far as being requested to install apps like slack and discord on my phone, which i refused. Not doing so caused a lot of headche and trouble for me as well as many side eyed looks. Just a heads up.

                                          User2288 Thanks for sharing. It really defeats the purpose of using a privacy-respecting OS when all the programs are invasive. Would you say from your experience that the software your course required worked on MacOS? Were there students who used it?

                                              Tuba In the end, I would still using a privacy-invasive OS so it wouldn't really help to run a VM with all the performance drawbacks. I was thinking about using Wine but it's too much work and I just need to get by a few years to get my degree. Any other thoughts?

                                                  yore in the case of software development the programs I needed to install were, Eclipse, slack, node server, Microsoft office, adobe pdf, zoom, java and c runtime environments (i think), and maybe a few more i cant recall right now. Also had to sign up for several free and "free for students" online services some of which required personal info (github, slack, atlassian, figma, trello, google, microsoft, discord, etc). Also had to sign up for multiple government websites to get a student loan as well a FORCED to install 1 gov ID app on my phone.

                                                  Students were able to use windows and macos just fine. There were some students who were just fine on linux too. Problem with linux is, if you run into trouble who is gonna fix it for you? I wasn't adept enough with linux.

                                                  Running vm bacame quite a pain. I thought i could have a linux laptop for privacy and just run windows requiring software inside a windows vm. This quickly became a lot of pain, slowness and battery drain. Not to mention i ran into network issues on the linux os when connecting to university network which i didn't know how to resolve. Also the linux os didnt work perfectly with the laptop and i had other issues with that too.

                                                  See?

                                                  Even using privacy browsers to log into sites was being a problem. I had to revert to some default browsers in some cases which undermined my other efforts.

                                                  All this aside from the massive toll it took on me to juggle all this crap.

                                                  Im not saying all this to deter you. Your case might be different than mine. But i wish i had known all this on day one, which is why im telling you now.

                                                  If i had to do it all over again, id simply give up on the privacy aspect, dedicate 1 laptop to all my school related work and not have to worry about "browser finger printing" and "ip hiding" and not worry about hiding my identity or email address either (make a dedicated email address for your entire education journey, you'll have to give it to a lot of people and sites and gov sources). Instead Id just keep my private life out of that laptop.

                                                  Its ok if that laptop gets fully associated with my identity and accounts. Have a separate platform for your private life. While you are a student a lot of personal information about you will become unprivate unfortunately, including your name, phone number, email address, and even home address being put on papers that get uploaded to google docs or shared online with other students and on their phones and laptops.

                                                  Id say take a strategy of "containment" and "walled garden" approach. Be mindful to not associated your other activities with that laptop and browsers.