Cellular Carrier Discussion Thread

Kenny33

No subpoena required…

https://apnews.com/article/technology-police-government-surveillance-d395409ef5a8c6c3f6cdab5b1d0e27ef

Aaron

Correct, sort of. no subpoena required to utilize Mobile Ad ID data just as Fog Reveal does for your local, state, and federal law enforcement departments.

I think/assume that your wireless carrier (VZW, ATT, TMo, etc) DOES require a subpoena as this is essentially "wiretapping". GrapheneOS specifically enables us to block MAID tracking and App specific tracking.

From Fog article:
"What distinguishes Fog Reveal from other cellphone location technologies used by police is that it follows the devices through their advertising IDs, unique numbers assigned to each device. These numbers do not contain the name of the phone’s user, but can be traced to homes and workplaces to help police establish pattern-of-life analyses."

I would assume the Google Fi utilizes everything they can, perhaps even cell tower data, to track your every move (but this is assumption.

Aaron

Kenny33

Kenny33
Nope. MAID doesn't exist on GOS at the OS level like on Android and IPhone. That's kind of the point of GOS.
But if you load G Services with wide open access, Google can track your every movement.

My work uses G-Suite, but even with G-Suite if running in Profile runningCompat Mode with permissions clamped they still can't build a MAID. GDrive, Gmail, GCal and all their crappy tools run well in their own tightly clamped down profile.
And then when I'm through checking email and calendar, power off the profile.

Side of Burritos on Youtube is a great channel. (I hope. LOL).

kopolee11

https://blog.google/products/google-fi/automatic-privacy-protection/

Interesting blog post with a white paper as well. Thoughts on what this means regarding Google Fi's security and privacy compared to alternatives?

OpenSource-Ghost

kopolee11

I know for a fact that local (US) cops had far more issues intercepting, eavesdropping, and monitoring Google Fi network compared to local T-Mobile network. It seems counter-intuitive because Google is basically anti-private, but Google Fi somehow ties its Google Account login infrastructure into cellular network, even for normal telephony usage.

OpenSource-Ghost

Can someone post a relatively detailed list of the kind of phone information, usage, and data carriers can access?

From my research, carriers have:

IMSI
IMEI
Phone number
Location
Phone call records
SMS/MMS records
Calendar events
911 emergency contacts/information
"About" device information (which can also be used to identify someone over WiFi)
PIN codes for telephony services (such as voicemail)
Number/key presses used during telephony services

It is crazy how much information carriers get. I think many people make the mistake of using the same PIN code for insecure services like voicemail and for secure services like Signal and/or for unlocking the phone itself.

panopticon

OpenSource-Ghost

Calendar events

Would this be calendar events in some sort of carrier calendar app? They can't get data from my FOSS calendar app can they?

911 emergency contacts/information

Is this data that one would add to the owner emergency information in settings or something else?

tinymce_goudreau

OpenSource-Ghost would spoofing the IMEI or changing it every hour resolve the tracking of a person by the carrier and agencies even when you change the phone number or sim card?

Is it possible to spoof the IMEI with GrapheneOS?

OpenSource-Ghost

panopticon

I don't know exact details carriers get about calendar events. The information you add in Emergency Settings is what carriers can see.

Access list I mention earlier (courtesy of local communications officers) is far from everything. A lot of it can be deduced by looking at Android developer and SDK information. It lists code examples for access and permissions of telephony services. I am not a developer and don't understand much of it, which is why I am asking here.

mjnck

tinymce_goudreau
I'm pretty sure internal modem does not permit changing IMEI's. Also in many countries its forbidden by the law to change IMEI.

Kenny33

Aaron thanks, is there something we need to be doing to block MAID tracking in graphene or is it done by default?

phil-p

Kenny33 Not sure if you know, or even if it matters to anyone, but Mint Mobile is owned by Verizon.

Kenny33

phil-p

I didn’t know that, pretty surprised because I thought it ran on T-Mobile towers

StarArmadillo

phil-p What's your source for that? From what I've read, Mint Mobile is owned by Ultra Mobile and Ryan Reynolds.

Mrxst

rsm If you live in an Europe, there not much you can do bc you have to register your name to the sim. If your in the US of A then get a prepaid sim card and you sould be fine.

Kamaehuakanaloa

Mrxst Does your statement apply to all all European countries, just those in the EU, or some other subset? And is this a recent development? Several years ago, while in the Ukraine, I was able to buy a prepaid SIM with cash, without being asked any personal information.

[deleted]

Kamaehuakanaloa Does your statement apply to all all European countries, just those in the EU, or some other subset?

Not OP but plenty of European countries do not require any kind of registration with your prepaid SIM. Top up options can be somewhat limited for those based outside of their target markets though, depending on the service provider.

d9780

This service accesses both AT and T and T-Mobile through a prepaid only data sim.
Is there any reason I don't use this? It's prepaid for a year with no contract......

EIOTCLUB Data SIM Card for 360 Days - Compatible with AT&T and T-Mobile Networks for Unlocked Security Solar and Hunting Trail Game Cameras IoT Device(USA Coverage, Triple Cut 3-in-1)

mommy

d9780
I believe they will cancel the service if trying to use this on a phone from the phones IMEI. I could be wrong though.

mommy

[deleted]

Very interesting thread. I've gotten interested in this strictly for hobby sake from watching Niomi Brockwell haha, kinda like a game to see what its all about. I still Don't understand the part of someone changing sims monthly if the IMEI an IMSI instantly links you from the old sim to the new sim anonymously or not. Whats the advantage from a month to month lets say Mint mobile compared to their 12 month anonymous sim. Also I've heard of apps that would change the IMEI, before the sim swap, this wouldn't work in G-OS?

[deleted]

mommy You’re not achieving anything by swapping out SIMs apart from a fleeting, feel-good feeling of starting from a blank slate. If you lose your phone and someone replaces your SIM with another SIM, police will still be able to track down both the phone and potentially the individual carrying it. It should tell you everything you need to know. It’s how they blacklist stolen devices and do other things. IMEI numbers are hardcoded on cellular devices by the device manufacturers. If you want a brand new cellular identity there’s no way around buying a brand new device and SIM and there would still be plenty of ways to tie both devices to you though call patterns et al.

d9780

mommy

mommy Why would they care what OS was on the device I was using the Wi-Fi card that I paid for on?

mommy

d9780
I'm most likely wrong with this particulate sim, but have read several people getting restricted off data only sims in a phone that are meant for data only hotspot and tablet sims. I'm curious as well on this one

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