matchboxbananasynergy I'll get that. But why not just copy Apples database (now if it's non copyrightable) and host it yourself rather then just rerouting Apple's services through GrapheneOS servers?
Nomatter, I see that GrapheneOS own location services is in the works.
VEECCdYKYi We've made it clear that we're making our own database based on Apple's data. Scraping Apple's data for Wi-Fi APs will take a lot of time and work. Making our own database and software for using it is a whole lot more work that's going to take a while. Providing offline support is a whole lot more work on top of that. We're working on that. We've said we're doing it.
ryrona Every profile has their own VPN configuration for a reason. Owner user VPN is used for system services. If you want to keep things more separate, then you should use multiple profiles with their own VPNs configured. It can be the same VPN provider and the same account, or you can split it up at a higher expense. That is the way to deal with these things. Our network location service is not breaking the anonymity of using a VPN, it's just a typical location-based service, is opt-in and is very clear about the fact it will send location data (nearby Wi-Fi APs) to the enabled service. There will be offline support for people willing to download a database to their storage for the areas they need. What we've provided is already a huge step towards offline support due to how Apple's API is designed. You should look at how it works. It already calculates the position estimate locally based on the downloaded Wi-Fi AP data. It only needs the service to obtain the data. With offline support, it will have a local database to query for Wi-Fi APs and can use exactly the same code for calculating the position as it uses for the online mode without a local database. It even already implements a local in-memory cache with 15 minute expiry so it can work offline to an extent after it puts data in the cache.
GrapheneOS Owner user VPN is used for system services.
It all makes sense at a technical level it is designed the way it is. All I am saying, it is not obvious to the user that is how it works. It wasn't even obvious to me, I had to ask you. So it will absolutely not be obvious to your average activist or journalist. That is why I ended my message with "usable security". That is the context in which my criticism should be viewed. It isn't obvious to users that sending your network location over a VPN compromises your anonymity either.
Best way to protect users from harming their own anonymity would be to assume they have zero technical knowledge of the system, and then make it easy for them to set things up the right and secure way, and hard for them to set it up the wrong way. Clear and concise warnings goes a long way to accomplish this.
ryrona There can be a more detailed section on connections than there already is.
GrapheneOS thank you for your time and effort explaining the topic. Now I understand what this discussion is about
GrapheneOS I am a bit confused in how to use this. Going to Location->Location Services->Network Location allows me to turn it on. It says it uses WiFi scanning to help find your location. Does that mean I need to turn on Location->Location Services->Wi-Fi scanning for this to work? What is the point of bluetooth scanning if network location only uses WiFi scanning?
n2gwtl additionally, I use owntracks for providing my location to other apps. Own tracks is set to record location only during significant changes to position. I am not sure how this works, but I assume the OS is indicating to the app that a significant change in position has happened which triggers owntracks to request the location. This works mostly fine with network location off. When network location is set to GrapheneOS, owntracks is requesting location every 3-10 mins even when it is on a table for 8 hours.
@GrapheneOS referencing this again as I believe this got lost during the major Android quarterly update work.
n2gwtl If you enable network location by itself, it will work when Wi-Fi enabled. If you enable Wi-Fi scanning, it will also be able to do Wi-Fi scans when Wi-Fi is otherwise disabled. Read the description of Wi-Fi scanning. Bluetooth and Wi-Fi scanning toggles are standard Android toggles enabled by default on the stock OS. They are not specific to our network location implementation but rather impact any apps granted the required permission to do scans.
Murcielago support for blocking callers who are not in the contacts
I tried to do this two days ago and could find no way to block a spam caller. I sure as heck didn't want to add the jerk to my contacts list.
SteveC On which OS release? There's an "Add a number" UI in the Phone app within the Blocked numbers menu.
GrapheneOS Build number 2025031400 (i.e. later than this).
So I have to go to a special "blocked numbers" area to add a number?
Why cant I just do that from the calls log, when I am looking at the number of the loser? There ought to be a "block number" option there.
SteveC That's the standard UI for it. We could add another UI later when we heavily fork AOSP Dialer into a standalone app, which we haven't done yet, and other apps are being done first.
GrapheneOS There's an "Add a number" UI in the Phone app within the Blocked numbers menu.
Actually I can't find the blocked numbers menu. The three vertical dots dropdown just has "Call history" and "settings", the options at the bottom are favorites, recents and contacts. None of these destinations appears to have anything either.
In your other reply you said this was the standard UI yet every regular Android device I've ever used has easy access to block the number, so I guess Android doesn't follow the referenced standard.
SteveC Sorry if I have misunderstood, but you can just hold press the number in your call history and block the number... Or you can add a number to the block list manually by going to the three dots menu, settings, blocked numbers, add number.
Lilac6044 Sorry if I have misunderstood, but you can just hold press the number in your call history and block the number... Or you can add a number to the block list manually by going to the three dots menu, settings, blocked numbers, add number.
No, I can't. If holding down sent me to a "block number" option, I'd have no complaint. Instead, I have "Copy Number" "Edit number before call" and "Delete"
And under settings, all I see are "Display options" "Sounds and vibration" "Call recording" "Quick responses" "Calling acocunts" and "about."
SteveC Hi, that is odd. Sorry I could not be more help... I hope someone else can chime in with a suggestion as I can block numbers the way I outlined. Weird that you do not have the options. Best of luck.
