• General

  • How does Private Spaces isolation compare to secondary user profile?

ignoramous I take insult to be lumped with Blokada.

Okay?

Rethink is focused on anti-censorship, and we continually add (and want to add) improvements to that end, even if you may not notice it.

Also, it is a bit of a stretch passing your opinion (about what's critical for our project) as a fact.

I've known of Rethink long before it added the ability to import WireGuard configs so I'm not sure what you think it is I don't notice. I'm also not sure what you think is not a fact about the fact that Rethink is not a VPN and that mere support for configs does not make that a priority to its overall offering. You don't host servers, provision IP addresses and monitor their reputation, experiment with designs not based on WireGuard, undertake (or even as yet support) pioneering tech on obfuscation/anti-censorship measures in the space, deal with the realities of facing the GFW and its variants, etc.

It's no more 'opinion' than saying the Mullvad app isn't an ad blocker and that its ad blocking isn't a priority. It isn't, and that's perfectly fine. It's a great VPN though, and in this case, is one.

Have you got a personal email from me where I decried that WireGuard is a bridge too far for Rethink (a bit rich as we've been working on just the WireGuard bits for close to a year now, btw)?

Email? What? What does this have to do with anything here?

If not, you should consider if deriding our little project is of any constructive use to anyone.

Simply explaining why your app is a bad fit for what's being discussed is not 'deriding' it any more than explaining why Mullvad, IVPN, and Proton are a bad fit for ad blocking in a browser is 'deriding' any of them. You can find it unconstructive, but it was suggested and I was asked. I only answered.

      ignition I'm also not sure what you think is not a fact about the fact that Rethink is not a VPN and that mere support for configs does not make that a priority to its overall offering

      You don't get to decide what is and isn't priority for a project you don't control.

      ignition pioneering tech on obfuscation/anti-censorship measures in the space

      Anti-censorship is more than just GFW. Also, I've developed two other FOSS projects in this space, Rethink isn't my first or last foray.

      ignition Simply explaining

      Your simple explanations are rather too verbose and opinionated.

              ignoramous You don't get to decide what is and isn't priority for a project you don't control.

              No, but I have eyes and can apply reason to observations. That allows me to determine what is and isn't a priority in comparison to things where it is a priority as a matter of fact.

              Anti-censorship is more than just GFW

              It is nice the goalposts are moving. The authority posturing is also a nice touch.

              Your simple explanations are rather too verbose

              Simple things get simple explanations, 'verbose' replies merit the same, and repeating 'opinionated' doesn't make it so just because you're offended about what you've confused yourself into thinking it says about your app.

                  ignition authority posturing

                  If anyone talks about my projects to me, that's just me, in my comfort zone. Not my intention to "posture".

                  ignition priority as a matter of fact

                  How is the developers spending the past 10 months (16 releases!) working mostly on WireGuard be not priority to them? (it is a rhetorical question)

                  ignition goalposts are moving

                  I said "anti censorship", and you went GFW. I built an app that can supports WireGuard, and you go "but where is your VPN network"?

                  ignition you're offended about what you've confused

                  tbh, I'm astounded, not offended. I'm amused, not confused.

                  (I hope we can drop our disagreements here as this thread is getting derailed. Hopefully, you find answers you're looking for, from contributors better than I).

                            I have no issues with people who represent a project here defending it if they feel it's being attacked or misrepresented by someone, but I hope that we can all collectively end it there, as it's getting a bit too far away from what this thread is supposed to be about.

                              ignoramous How is the developers spending the past 10 months (16 releases!) working mostly on WireGuard be not priority to them?

                              The part where supporting WireGuard and or OVPN is so table stakes for a centralized VPN, the absolute barest minimum, that being able to get by with 'later support' speaks for itself. The Mullvad, ProtonVPN, and IVPN teams spent even longer getting ad block support integrated. It still doesn't make it a priority, sorry.

                              I said "anti censorship", and you went GFW

                              Nice goalpost shift but, no. You jumped in here offended that I called your non-VPN that, claiming it was mere 'opinion', and when I listed numerous properties of real VPNs for which the VPN is the priority, you cherry-picked one and decided to posture about irrelevant apps you've built elsewhere like it grants some sort of authority.

                              as this thread is getting derailed

                              Would be nice if you thought of that before you decided to make it about your project.

                                  matchboxbananasynergy That's fair. My question was answered days ago actually. I definitely didn't expect a one-liner comment I made then to cause this much engagement.

                                    @matchboxbananasynergy Actually, I wouldn't mind if the VPN-over-VPN discussion was split out into a separate thread from mine, since it had nothing with my thread to do. Many of my questions in my original post is still unanswered, but I guess many would not feel encouraged to answer them even if they know the answer, since there is an unrelated heated debate going on here.

                                    But I guess I will be able to answer most of those questions myself whenever the release is finally made, in case no one actually knows.

                                    12 days later

                                    ignition Chaining VPN connections is supported. Using local filtering at the same time as a VPN is supported. You're simply wrong about these things. Your issue is that you're using apps not supporting it. It has nothing to do with profiles and it wouldn't make any sense for secondary profiles to go through the Owner user VPN as an additional layer. It goes against the whole purpose of profiles of acting as separate devices as well as they can on the same device. Nesting VPNs is entirely possible and something VPN apps can support already. They can provide configuration for this inside the app or simply support chaining through multiple providers as the default approach. Some apps do support this in some form such as bridge support for Tor which is essentially exactly that provided in a specific way.

                                    The current compromise often recommended is a not particularly intuitive hack offered by some firewall apps that have secondary VPN functionality but you forfeit expedient location changes and now have to place your trust in them to not introduce subtle bugs that break the VPN, a big ask for something of secondary concern to them, while they're focused on building out their firewall/dns features. Even worse, this compromise is off the table if you rely on the anti-censorship/obfuscation measures the full VPN provides.

                                    No, there are apps with first class VPN support in addition to first class filtering support. Apps can support chaining VPN connections too. None of this is relevant to profiles and is something VPN apps need to provide. Most of these apps focusing on 1 specific thing instead of providing everything users want from a VPN app is because almost none of them are trying to make a high quality Android VPN app. Most are simply adding Android support to an existing project and use the VPN service feature for it without considering what makes a good Android VPN service app. There are a few apps trying to provide a good Android VPN service app and fulfilling multiple use cases at once.

                                        Probably9857 No need to apologize. The user you're responding to has derailed multiple threads with their grievances about unrelated things, attacking GrapheneOS and other projects for illogical reasons. They were permanently suspended for doing this same thing in another thread in a much more severe way.

                                          Viewpoint0232 You can use both a Private Space and a work profile at the same time so you don't need to choose. Private Space doesn't depend on a management app and provides more built-in functionality since it's not tied to one. It's not currently possible to have multiple Private Spaces but it could be added and it's something we could do in the future, but the UI would need to be figured out to properly differentiate between them in the same way the Private Space is differentiated from a work profile.

                                              GrapheneOS Im just sad that i have to use up more than 3 VPN device slots with my provider just on a single device.

                                                  Rizzler if it really bothers you, depending on what VPN provider you use, you can download an OpenVPN config and use the OpenVPN app.

                                                  All VPN providers I have tried, don't bother attempting to limit consecutive OpenVPN connections (at least, not when made in the way described above). It's probably more work than it's worth, I imagine.

                                                  I'm not vouching for the speed or the security etc, of this method though. In fact I'm pretty sure the only VPN app advised by GrapheneOS is the Official WireGuard app.

                                                  I guess another method could be to use your home router, if it has the functionality. When at home, you could leave all the VPN slots without a VPN and connect your router to a VPN via a downloaded WireGuard config. Then when not at home, you could set up a VPN server on your router and make separate configs for each profile etc etc, I think you get the point by now...

                                                  Personally, I like having separate VPN slots for each profile as it helps with keeping them isolated.

                                                  @Rizzler mind me asking what VPN you use? Or how much it costs per month?

                                                  Edit: Actually, maybe leave it as I'm just going to derail the thread more with stuff that isn't really relevant to the topic. The reason I asked is because I find it hard to believe it could end up costing you that much extra by taking up a couple extra VPN slots

                                                      roamer4223 please feel free to delete my last message (and this one) if you feel I have derailed the thread again after the official GrapheneOS account pretty much brought the entire VPN matter to a close. I really didn't think before commenting, sorry

                                                        roamer4223 Hey, thank you for the detailed info. I use Mullvad with the WireGuard app. It may actually work with profiles, cuz i don't have two profiles open at the same time usually.

                                                          6 days later

                                                          Sorry if this has been asked, iv searched and the focus seems to be on VPNs. Can apps communicate between main and private space?