E
Eudyptula

  • a month ago
  • Joined Oct 25, 2024
  • In Regression in GrapheneOS? Apps are aggressively killed by OS in the background

    fid02

    Developer options has been used, but not for things that should affect process and memory management. :) ADB has not been used at all.
    My friends's and family's configuration is more default than my own. I'm not sure if any options are changed in developer options on their phones.

    The developer options I have set :

    • Enable Wi-Fi verbose logging (enable) (provides useful info about Wi-Fis in the Wi-Fi network view)
    • Show taps (enable) (personally really fond of this option for various reasons)
    • Always show crash dialogue (enable) (I want to know about system events, this seems like a novice-oriented user friendly-oriented default)
    • Show background ANRs (enable) (same as the above, I want to know about system events rather than it happening in silence)
    • Force full GNSS measurements (enable) (force full duty cycle when an app actively is using GPS, e.g. for navigation. It considerably improves accuracy at the expense of increased power draw)

    The options for animation scale are all 0x, but they were set in the accessibility settings. The accessibility settings for disabling animations will set all the 3 animation scale settings in developer options to 0x, so it seems to be just a user-facing shortcut and remote that saves you the trouble of having to go into developer options.

    Developer option that I'm not sure whether is in default state or not:

    • Show notification channel warnings (enable) (warning when an app posts a notification without a valid channel)
    Correction due to not being able to edit main post anymore:

    I mentioned the developer option that let you adjust the background process limit and wondered whether this could be a possible workaround (even though it's the sort of "substitute a broom for a toothbrush because of large teeths" sort of solution). Though, upon looking at that setting, the options seem to only limit the amount instead of being able to adjust the limit to a higher number. Highest limit value is up to 4. I would assume that the default limit is considerably higher.

      • In Necroposting and other anti spam protection

        I really don't get why some people think "necroposting" is somehow a bad thing. O.o

        If you ask me, threads should stay open indefinitely, unless there are specific and good reasons for deviating from that and closing it. For instance, topic threads that have become so long that it simply makes sense to start a new one and keep the old for reference (not that I have seen that sort of thing here anyway).

        You may think these kinds of posts are spam, but that doesn't mean they are spam. I'm also not sure what your point is about having seen posts being locked in other forums for "necroposting". It just sounds like an example of a non-sensical policy and volunteer moderators having to waste their time on something that is detrimental anyway.

        Spam is spam. Conversations aren't. If anything, what is lacking is the ability to sort forum activity feed by thread recency (+ latest reply) rather than advocating for policies that handicap the fundamental purpose of a forum as a workaround to something that is much easier fixed by simply providing simple sorting tools. That way, everyone gets what they want. Instead of forcing a preference on everyone.

      • In App was denied access

        I think that GrapheneOS should take a pro-FOSS approach to this. Making it harder or less convenient to use FOSS software has long-term implications for privacy and security. Google and others are already making it less convenient, intuitive and harder to use "sideloaded apps". It does't take much for people to not bother and just use whatever is there already or it fast and easy. That's how the current status quo came to be.

      • In Regression in GrapheneOS? Apps are aggressively killed by OS in the background

        In short, apps are being killed extremely aggressively. As far as I know, this issue does not exist on stock Android.

        It surely must be pretty detrimental to battery life, as we all know that keeping apps for as long as possible in memory is preferable rather than starting them up again and again and again (which was the problem with all the resource optimizer apps that falsely claimed to free up resources and improve battery). :/

        The issue:

        It's driving me crazy that I now can't be sure whether an app will be killed off if I go into a different app for a few moments before returning.

        Whenever I'm opening my browser, which I use a lot and often need immediately, it takes ages to start up again. My tabs are waiting to be loaded and opening new tabs doesn't work either during this start up.

        Sessions/progress being reset is now just a normal system behaviour. :/

        Friends and family, which I convinced to get Pixel phones and install GrapheneOS on them, all have reacted to this as it's pretty hard not to notice. It really does affect usability.

        My phone is a Pixel 8 Pro and even with an older Pixel phone this has nothing to do with limited resources. Apps are being thrown out of memory rather aggressively, when they should be kept in memory as long as it's room for it.

        What I've tried so far:

        Of course, allowing background usage and setting "unrestricted" in "App battery usage".

        I've tried to disable the things in the app info page that are GrapheneOS related. I initially thought that "Exploit protection compatibility mode" solved it. It seemed to do so, until it didn't.

        I can't disable memory tagging, as Brave Browser opts in and the other options are greyed out.

        I don't actually want to disable security and privacy related features, but the current behaviour is pretty broken and at times (literally) unusable (when I have to sit and stare at my phone while waiting to be able to use the app that I used literally seconds ago).

        Are there any known workarounds until (hopefully) it's fixed by the developers?

        I really hope this is not intentional behaviour. And even if it has a purpose relating to security, it's just way too intrusive and should be opt-in.

        I'm wondering if setting the limit of background processes in developer options to something way too high would resolve the issue, but that too is undesireable (even though it would be better than the current behaviour).

        Any ideas? :)

        • In DisplayPort with Pixel 9 Pro Fold

          DeletedUser115

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          USB-C to DP male

          $15.19 Cable Matters 201036

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          USB-C to DP female (adapter)

          $15.99 Cable Matters 201086

          • In App was denied access

            Had the same issue with KDE Connect. The link "Learn how to give access" doesn't work on my end either and it wasn't clear at all why it was restricted or where to override it (I found it by stubbornly just looking around everywhere).

            Is there a certain reason why apps are being restricted like this? Does it have anything to do with it being installed from F-Droid? Or is it just a "safety measure" put in place to prevent people from doing dumb things?

            While I can understand this, I don't like not having full control over my system and my settings. And when I don't, it should be clear how it can be regained. :)

            • de0u replied to this.
            • In Something keeps killing my apps

              My experience with GrapheneOS on several phones (as well as many friends of mine running it) is that both performance and battery life is noticably better with GrapheneOS. So there must be something going on with the state of your phone.

              It could be a combination of several things.

              Apps:

              One factor could be that you just have a bunch of apps installed. Especially apps from Play Store will commonly have a lot of trackers. It's comparable to browser trackers (which are watching and analysing your activity, logging it and sending this to a remote server).

              Replacing these apps with alternatives from a repository like F-Droid or IzzyOnDroid (a repository with more apps and quicker updates, created by an F-Droid developer). I recommend Neo Store (or Droid-ify) as your F-Droid client as you can toggle many additional repositories from the app instead of having to search it up and copy links and follow instructions. Neo Store (or Droid-ify) also have additional features that are quite useful.

              If you have a lot of apps installed, this will definitely affect both performance (and thus battery drain). You might not be aware of background services or tasks.

              Check resource usage:

              • Go to Settings --> Battery --> Battery usage. Anything sticking out?

              • Check Running Services in Developer options.

              • Also, go to the 3-dotted menu at the top right, toggle "Show cached processes". These apps are just kept in cache and doesn't necessarily do anything. Remember, in most cases it's better to keep apps in memory rather than killing them (as it requires more energy to start them up again rather than just keeping them in memory). If you are running out of memory, then it's a different matter. But then I'd instead consider uninstalling or changing out apps to better ones.

              • Setting apps to "unrestricted" is unlikely to affect battery usage if the app is written properly. I set unrestricted to all apps I want to work reliably and that I'm regularly using or depending on for its notifications.

              Other stuff:

              • Old systems will become filled up with logs and caches. I don't see this as something that will likely cause a system to behave like you're describing, but it could be a factor among others that affect the total outcome.

              • Have you installed any app that claims that it speeds up the system or free up resources or anything similar? If so, uninstall them. Those apps are making the system spend more resources than it should and making the problem worse or just outright causing new problems.

              • Do you have animated wallpaper engine installed? A custom launcher? Theming? A lot of overlays?

              • What hardware are you running?

              • Which GrapheneOS version? Stable release? Not beta or alpha?

              • Did you transfer or import settings or apps from another phone?

              • Do you use multiple users?

              • Are you actually running out of memory? Do you mind uploading screenshots of AccuBattery message and performance-related info, as well as background apps and services and other related things mentioned here. The more the better. Even a list of your apps or at least a number of how many and how many of those are running in the background and are cached.
                It's easier to help if we know more. Of course, only upload things that you are comfortable with and avoid uploading anything that can be identifiable like usernames, e-mail or apps that are otherwise of sensitive or personal nature (medical-related, dating, membership stuff or even banking apps if you want to be super incognito). You can censor details or apps with e.g. Fossify Gallery (the editing tools are alright enough).

              In case you want to wipe the system and start from a clean slate:

              I can recommend some nice apps and tools to make backup and later importing easier. I can also recommend good app replacements that I and others I know have good experience with. :)

              Developer options, performance and battery life:

              I highly doubt simply having the menu enabled and exposed have any effect on either performance or battery life. Some might speculate it could enable other features that would be useful for developers, such as logging or debugging. However, developers are interested in testing actual real-world experience and it's just unintuitive and strange if it did some additional stuff in the background that the developer was not told, this could scew testing results.

              However, there are certain options within Developer options that can affect performance and battery life. The majority of these options that affect these aspects are pretty obvious for most people.

              So don't worry about Developer options. And don't worry about not being a developer, I won't call the Android settings police if you don't. ;) :D

              Animations:

              fid02's advice about using Settings > Accessibility > Color and motion > Remove animations: ON instead of Developer options' animation settings is a good. Though, it's seemingly just a shortcut for toggling the three animation-related Developer options "off".
              If you toggle either setting (either in Accessibility menus or in Developer options) both settings reflect the same state.

              "Disable Bluetooth A2DP hardware offload":

              This setting, if enabled, disables decoding and processing in the Bluetooth device. So by having this setting off (as is default) you ask the Bluetooth device to do audio decoding and processing. For old devices, this may be problematic. There might be other ways to fix your issues either on the device side or other Bluetooth settings in Developer Options (or in the regular Bluetooth settings). It depends on the device and the issue you are facing.

              By enabling this setting (which disables A2DP hardware offload) you ask the phone to do this instead and this will likely cause increased battery usage, but it's not enough to tank performance! It's a very trivial task for the phone's hardware to take care of.

              Hope this helps. :)

              fid02 There's almost never a need for developer options to be enabled... unless you are a developer!

              I respectfully beg to differ, as a non-developer. One of the first things I enable on a phone is "Show taps". It's a great indication of touch input in general, but especially in case you crack the screen. Because then you can see which part(s) of the screen is working and how it interprets your touch inputs (if it sounds useless; trust me, it is not. I've been able to operate cracked phones this way, e.g. by strategically rotating the screen to use the part where it's working. Also, when the screen is wet, you can see whether drops of water or damp affect touch input by being aware of what the "screen sees as touch input". Sometimes it also doesn't register touch inputs properly and you'll similarly be able to know why.
              Not having "Show Taps" enabled is simply a no-go for me, even if was the only Developer option I used.

              Before animations could be disabled in the accessibility option in the regular settings, the Developer option's animations options were the first thing I did on a new phone. Seeing as there's a "non-dev" setting for it now, it makes sense to use that instead. Like I said, it's very likely just a shortcut for the Developer options that bypasses the need of enabling and accessing Developer options.

              But in addition to "Show taps", I also like "Enable Wi-Fi Verbose logging", "Always show crash dialog" and "Show background ANRs". Some potentially interesting and potentially useful ones are "Force activities to be resizable", "Enable freeform windows" and "Enable non-resizable in multi window".

              Here's a continued list of options I find useful:

              • "Bluetooth AVRCP Version" and/or "Bluetooth MAP Version" have helped me in the past.
              • "Disable absolute volume" has helped me in the past.
              • "Bluetooth Audio LDAC Codec" also has its use (although I'm not quite sure if the setting is respected all the time).
              • "Show Bluetooth devices without names" have been useful in the past (find a specific device by MAC among several identical device models).
              • "Wi-Fi scan throttling" is useful when mapping Wi-Fi network signal strength and channels, such apps need this to be off.
              • "USB debugging", "Wireless debugging" and "disable adb authorization timeout" also have their uses.
              • "Quick settins developer tiles" and e.g. "Wireless debugging" tile enabled can definitely be useful.
              • "Running services" and "Standby apps" have their uses.
              • "Enable Bluetooth HCI snoop log" is useful for checking e.g. supported bitrates and codecs for BT devices.
              • "Select mock location app" has its use.

              I'm not a developer, but the Developer options are super nice and handy even for regular people. Just because it says "Developer options" doesn't mean it's just for developers. I think we all know the reasoning behind naming it that way.

              • In App sources

                Some people argue that F-Droid isn't as safe as Play Store. However, there are arguments against Play Store as well (you have to trust Google, for one...). I don't remember all the details, but I've done some digging into it. My conclusion is that I'm comfortable and happy with F-Droid clients (F-Droid, F-Droid Simple, Droid-ify, Neo Store etc.)

                Personally I currently use Droid-ify but I think I'll move over to Neo Store (it has some additional nice features and development seems to be more active (looking at the git)). Both apps have the ability to save a list of favorite apps and have export/import functionality. Neo Store can export installed apps and import a list of apps and install all of them.

                Creating a setup for later migration is very neat.

                The reason for using alternatives to F-Droid is additional functionality. One of which is a toggle to enable other repositories (like IzzyOnAndroid, created by one of the F-Droid developers). With F-Droid, you have to manually add them. Also, having import/export functionality in Droid-ify and Neo Store makes it much easier to just import your favorite setup. Neo Store also have indicators of trackers and permissions for apps and you can filter/sort by licence, permitted anti-features, repositories and generally has more features. It's quite customizable, so you can disable some of the things you don't want.

                F-Droid and F-Droid Simple might be easier to use, but more difficult to set up well (because the need to manually find repos and manually add apps e.g. after moving to a new phone). But I wouldn't say Droid-ify and Neo Store are very hard to use (sometimes easier, like mentioned). Like with everything, you have to learn a few things when trying something new for the first time, that's true for everything in life.

                I had some issues with apps not automatically updating previously (it was an issue with Android or GrapheneOS and the developers have been aware of it). I moved over to F-Droid Simple and at some point automatic updating worked and I then moved over to Droid-ify and it worked there also. I haven't tried F-Droid again but I assume the issue was fixed in an OS patch at some point.

                I haven't verified if this works in Neo Store. Note: You always have to install manually once, then afterwards it is able to automatically update. You don't have to reinstall, just update manually once in the new store app.

              • In DisplayPort with Pixel 9 Pro Fold

                876fi I always wondered whether there is a difference in terms of quality/capability for video output between a USB-C cable that I got with my DELL display and the Pixel original USB-C cable. The former one is thick and stiff, and the later one is thin and flex. Does this matter whatsoever?

                The included cable is likely USB 2.0 like it was for previous generations (it looks the same and there's no indication they changed it).

                Thickness can matter, but it also depends on the materials used and other details. As a general rule, you can assume that a thicker cable will have thicker wires inside, but it could also be down to insulation thickness and material as well as braiding.

                Some cables have ticker wires for e.g. the power lines. There's also a difference in which of the USB-C pins are connected and what chips are used in the cable (yes, cables have chips).

                Also, a lot of the brand cables are not really good. Some are. Some will have a higher voltage drop and resistance. Some are just incorrectly designed and some are just poor quality.

                I found Ugreen and Anker to do well in online lab test reviews and Baseus to do poorly. I wish we had more of those tests, because many brands and models haven't been tested yet. I personally prefer Ugreen on the basis of lab test reviews, both chargers and cables.

                And beware, most 100 or 240 W cables are actually USB 2.0. If it says "480 Mpbs", "USB 2.0" or just outright doesn't mention transfer speed - then you can be sure it's only USB 2.0. Personally, I think it's wise to invest in a proper high-speed cable when investing in 240 W cables, to make the purchase last as long as possible.

                My Pixel 8 Pro can transfer at higher speeds than USB 2.0 and you need that for SSDs, hubs, docks etc. as well.

                Unfortunately, marketing tricks people into buying a bunch of crap. :/