I run Linux on my home computer as a daily driver. I'm considering getting a new computer for university that does not run Linux. I'm thinking either MacOS or Windows and have a few questions:

  1. Which has less telemetry/phoning home?
  2. How much can telemetry be removed from MacOS?
  3. Generally, would university software require Windows? I'm taking cybersecurity programs.

I'm more inclined towards MacOS since its more similar to Linux and has security features like full verified boot but still considering the pros and cons. What do you all think?

    yore Generally, would university software require Windows? I'm taking cybersecurity programs.

    I don't think there is a "generally". I recommend checking your university's web site, but also talking to a few students in your specific program.

    • yore replied to this.
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      • Edited

      yore I think, in the privacy community, it is mostly agreed upon that MacOS is better in terms of privacy than Windows. From my experience, it is also easier and more straightforward to disable telemetry in MacOS settings
      than in Windows. In my opinion, if you disable all telemetry and personalization toggles in MacOS and not link your MacBook to an Apple ID or use iCloud, your Mac will be reasonably private. You can also consider using something like NextDNS to block other MacOS telemetry that is not covered by toggles in the settings.

      If you don't mind me asking, why would you not want to use Linux for university? I read that some universities have their own servers that you remotely connect to and use from any device, eliminating the need for students to worry about which operating system they are running. It would be a good idea to contact your chosen university and see what they recommend for your course.

      Note: Not connecting an Apple ID to your MacBook will not allow you to install applications from the Mac App Store, locate your device using Find My, or use Activation Lock.

      • N1b likes this.

      yore

      SmackOS has moved to more telemetry lately, and it might maybe have something to do with Apple turing their direction to selling ads and services in general. It is or was possible to block most or all with firewall.

      Windows has been a telemetry hole for a while, and will be much more so with win12. They have too much to gain with combining all your info with their ads and AI. Dunno if they will train AI on your personal stuff and behavior inside Windows.

      Both Apple and Microsoft are giants, and if they do something stupid they will get slapped hard. So in a way they will both take your stuff but also keep it mostly safe. Microsoft might dethrone Google on their hometurf in the coming years. If you dislike Google today, just you wait.

      Dualboot will solve your concerns about being compatible with your university. As de0u said; you should ask them about required software and platform for that.

      Dual boot Linux & an ameliorated version of Win10. Best solution I've found so far to run basically all software used for business, play games, and have the better Linux option available for the bulk of your activities.

      yore it really depends a lot on your situation and needs, especially with your university.

      Design and nice hardware like the Apple ARM CPUs aside, there's little reason to use a Macbook in my opinion. Regarding your questions:

      1. The least phoning home after most Linux distributions, from what I researched, would be Windows 10 LTSC, but licenses are hard to come by. The Enterprise or Education license should give you enough control though and be next in line. This is followed by MacOS which has some more and easier to turn off privacy settings. Because people tend to cut Apple more slack, here's a warning: Apple does mostly privacy theater and will collect and sell your data just like Microsoft and Google, they intend to increase their ad revenues a lot and got caught not respecting privacy toggles in their own apps, I have linked sources in other threads but I'm too tired now to research them. Just be careful not to fall for their marketing and rather listen to what they tell their investors. The popular last place goes to Windows Home or Professional where you're simply not in charge of many telemetry settings. I'd personally dual boot a good simple Linux like Fedora or Mint with Windows 10 Education if I needed Windows or MacOS occasionally. Or buy a Framework laptop and install Linux and Windows on two of their external drives and simply swap them out as needed if that is in your budget.

      2. The privacy settings, not having an Apple ID (brew.sh will help a lot with installing and updating apps), LuLu firewall and NextDNS are your friends. Don't trust Apple to actually respect the privacy settings themselves (same goes for Microsoft of course).

      3. In my university Linux was favored for specific programing tools or stuff like LaTeX. I think there is no general, and if you're lucky your university won't require you to use Windows or MacOS or even actively discourage it.

      If someone asks this question, the answer is MacOS. The real answer is more nuanced but it's all about effort vs result tradeoff

        • [deleted]

        evalda I agree, MacOS is the most straightforward approach and would be compatible with most people's threat models.

        Personally, I'd get the x86-based laptop and go with Linux (System76 is a good route, but pricey. You can also find great deals on HP Elitebook/Dell XPS type machines on ebay, and they work fine). With this option, you can run Windows if you want, but you might not need it.

        A Mac will hamstring your options, plus I find the restrictiveness and opacity of Apple OSes to be unacceptable. With Windows, at least I can modify most settings if I really want to.

          use windows, it will make your life easier and less troubleshooting in windows realted to cybersec tools.

          I don’t think MacOS is as private as people think. Iv got Littlesnitch running on my MBP and the telemetry is pinging every few seconds even with everything “off” on the settings. Luckily you can use tools (such as little snitch) to block it.

            • [deleted]

            Albatross Framework is a good option for running both Linux and Windows. I was looking into System76 but I saw too many complaints about the build quality of the device so I ultimately decided I would get a Framework laptop instead.

            • [deleted]

            Graphene1 How did you differentiate the telemetry from the connections essential for operating MacOS?

              Get an x86 laptop, run Linux on it, and run Windows and x86 MacOS in a VM. If you really need to run Windows natively for some reason (a course on Windows kernel hacking or something), dual boot.

              Apple hardware is great, but you are limited to MacOS and the Arm versions of Windows and Linux in a VM (or Linux on the metal if you go Asahi), which have their limitations. If the power efficiency isn’t critical to you, an x86 platform is more flexible in terms of both what you can run on it, and what the hardware will let you do (eg you can swap out your SSD for a bigger one).

              If you run your ‘dangerous’ OSes in VMs, you can eg disable networking, or install dodgy apps then delete the VM/rollback to a previous snapshot, which are harder to do running natively.

              For a cybersecurity course I’d imagine a good number of the students will be running Linux, maybe the teacher too, so I wouldn’t expect you to be unusual. Although one thing you could do is keep your current machine and then find out what machine you need once you’ve started - maybe you need a big compile box for projects, or maybe they do everything on servers and an iPad would be fine.

                [deleted] depends what you mean by essential. I don’t use any Apple services such as iCloud, iMessage etc.

                Iv got two profiles, one blocks all outgoing connections to Apple, the other everything other than what’s required for updates.

                Once I week I switch to the update profile, check for updates, update if needed then switch back over to block all profile.

                  Foggy Thank you for the coherent reply that answered what I asked. For everyone, I already use Linux. This is strictly for school use only.

                  VMs are a good suggestion but they aren't perfect and they run quite slow especially with a Windows guest which I have tried.

                  My main concern is privacy and software compatibility. Trying to find the Goldilocks's zone. I guess I'll have to give it some time before the program starts.

                  • Tuba replied to this.
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                    • Edited

                    Graphene1 Are you talking about xp.apple.com? As fa as I am aware this is the domain needed for updates. By essential, I meant something like OSCP which should not be blocked as it checks if downloaded apps' certificates are revoked or not. Gatekeeper should not be blocked either. My point is, when I was running Lulu on my MacBook, there were many connections being made. I don't believe they were for telemetry purposes but background tasks that may be beneficial like OSCP and Gatekeeper that I am not familiar with. This is why I asked if you were able to tell the difference between the telemetry domains and the domains that have actual functionality.

                    yore I would recommend getting a light linux distro, kicksecure seems good as i use it myself. On kicksecure you would have a vm, and since your host distro is so small i imagine you would have a better performance than you would with a heavy linux distro and a windows vm. I would also think about debloating your windows vm to increase the performance even further, hope that helps

                    • yore replied to this.

                      yore
                      I think definitely check with the course instructors at your university. They'll tell you exactly.

                      In my software development program they told us on day 1 of classes what kind of a system we'll need.

                      Also i tried to go about this while trying to stay private by going linux. It was an absolute disaster. I had to quickly revert to windows.

                      But your program might be different. A lot of security software is on windows and linux. So do check with them.

                      Also privacy might go out the window because they'll require to quickly sign up for "this and that". Often you'll have to make a google and microsoft accounts because a lot of collaboration work is done on these very unprivate platforms. So.

                      I'd say expect to be forced into extremely unprivate scenarios, having to sign into different services and giving email, phone number, etc; having to use google drive and docs.

                      Make sure your laptop is at least 15" or you'll face much pain. Id say dedicate a laptop to this school work and consider it totally unprivate and use without headache. If you stress trying to be private on it you might run into a lot of headache.

                      Lastly, if you have freedom of choice then go with the platform that you are most familiar with to eliminate extra troubleshooting headache.

                      In my program it simply became impossible to keep with my privacy routines, going as far as being requested to install apps like slack and discord on my phone, which i refused. Not doing so caused a lot of headche and trouble for me as well as many side eyed looks. Just a heads up.