iOS vs GOS

n3t_admin

Slim Every time. So this might be a user/skill issue.

Here, I even went out of my way to make a fucking screenshot of it.

Skill issue, for sure.

Slim

n3t_admin Appreciate the screenshot. Mine does not do that. Maybe a non-US thing? Who knows. Mine and every single iPhone I've had, I click the Phone icon and it FaceTime Audio calls them. Maybe iOS learned that a loooong time ago I only FT Audio people? Not sure. If I press and HOLD on the phone/call icon, it gives me options similar to yours. But not if I just tap it.
Who knows! I'm not Apple Support. But I just checked it on my main phone, and 3 of my other iPhones, as well as 2 of my employees and all of ours it instantly just calls FT Audio. So yeah, maybe a Skill issue, or maybe an iOS version issue (or a country difference, IDK).

Curious

Well, well, well,... this got a little bit too intense.
Lets calm down, take a deep breath, each party said what is going on, what is their view point etc.

@GrapheneOS
I am sure this video is not meant as a targeted harassment content to GOS or dev team but rather making it look like that by using not accurate information or any prove of the claims to show the issue itself that was mentioned.
Obviously to me there is certain bias involved over iOS by @Slim which is fine, since he is in ecosystem with his contacts, so it makes sense to him to see it as better solution for his situation.

On the other hand @Slim I have to say one thing about your Windows statement...

we are comparing two phone OSes (not a desktop, and well windows phone is kinda not a thing really)
on Windows if you are patient and use resources how to do stuff, you can pretty much do and use a lot of things to shut telemetry (not completely I think in a way that would not break your system) but you can do limit stuff via GPO (non-invasive but strong), Registers (could break your system, but ultimate way to do things even when you think they are not possible), can you do this on a Mac? You can also remove Recall fully from the system and prove that it is not there and running.

GrapheneOS

Curious

I am sure this video is not meant as a targeted harassment content to GOS or dev team

The video directly references attacks on our team from harassment content. What else is that intended to do?

Slim

Curious You are 100% correct - the video was just showing the struggle of "normies" who might want to dabble in GrapheneOS. iOS fits my lifestyle better right now at this moment, nothing wrong with this.
With regards to the Windows thing - you are also right about that, you can try to take as much away from it as possible (with regards to telemetry). I just don't trust Microsoft at all - and even after taking away as much Telemetry as possible via registry changes, I was still seeing calls (which I blocked with NextDNS) when I was testing some things a few months back. So I guess it is possible to be slightly more private on Windows with tweaks but I really don't think it's totally possible, and doesn't fit my comfort level.
macOS is actually quite unique - you can disable pretty much all telemetry, and even use the machine without logging into an Apple ID which is amazing. So it is very possible to enjoy macOS in a relatively private manner - especially compared to Windows.
Of course, Linux is the best, but does not fit my workflow at this time.

Curious

GrapheneOS I mean I am not the one to judge here the level of the way that it is interpreted. I get your point tho and respect it.

Dragon

de0u

de0u I suspect many GrapheneOS users are the sole member of their families who use it.

LOL

n3t_admin

@Slim

Okay, I decided to give your video a second shot. Here's more considerations:

I don't trust people, "YouTubers" believe what GrapheneOS tells them.

Okay, but you believe Apple, a profit driven company that will collaborate with every government around the world, advertisers, Google (out of all!) and actual regimes vs. a completely open source project, where you can verify any claim they make yourself.
That's weird.

On Android the apps can contact the home base at any time.

You do realize, iOS apps can do that as well? I know that because I have constant DNS requests from apps that I haven't opened in weeks, like Amazon, who will be talking all the time? Background activities exist on iOS. You know, even Apple gives you this option.

Apps can cross talk.

Yeah, this is called IPC (Interprofile communication) and - surprise - this has been a thing for 10 years on iOS with no way of stopping it. Yaay!

That's not acceptable to me.

Yet you keep using that dirty data hog...

Apple doesn't have an advertising business.

Oh you sweet, sweet summer child

I did not sign in.

Great, you didn't sign in into your Google apps. What is the point exactly? They can still correlate who you are by just using the identifiers present on iOS. Such as battery percentage, free RAM, free storage... every app can access those metrics. Some app like Lirum Device Info Lite will give you a pretty good idea about how precise exactly those metrics can get.

If you don't enable that, the government could on your iCloud and read through your messages.

You mean like in the UK where Apple just complied and discontinued the feature for UK customers? Guess what? The government can't go through your Signal messages, shocker. Don't use the garbage iMessage - plain and simple - or - compliance, coming to a country near you soon.

Another touch up on iMessage:

It's a bloated PoS software that gets heavily limited when lockdown mode gets enabled - for a reason! It has been used for many exploits over the years due to the almost infinite amount of bugs it contains. This also included severe zero-click RCEs. I highly advise against using iMessage if you care about security. In fact, I would disable it altogether. The same advise goes for WhatsApp - it's also been used to exploit iOS lately.

Set this up similar to mine.

What's the threat model here? You are in a menu with all Apple system services. This does nothing to improve privacy as well as security. Apple knows your location anyway, I don't know what the threat model is here.

So it can triangulate you better.

Nope, that's not what the toggle is for.

Apple Maps is better than Google Maps.

Again, what's the point? Apple knows your location. It doesn't matter if it is enabled for 1 app or 100, it's the same entity.

You need to keep killing apps. Especially maps and GPS apps. Those can keep running in the background.

So... you contradict yourself from earlier in the video? I thought they don't, especially when you disabling background refresh. Which one is it?

Apps can use sensor, gyroscope, stuff like that.

Imagine if there was a toggle for that... oh wait!

There's really no point to switch to GrapheneOS at this point.

Oh boy, did you make your point clear by presenting... 1 and a half features of GrapheneOS. Really convincing.
It's like "I tried this bagel - it's the best! Don't look at the other bagels, there's no point in trying them!"

Would my bank 2FA work? I don't know.

So you never even went to the step of installing your apps and you say it's "too much of a hassle"? What the fuck.

You honestly think this is a fair comparison? I really don't at this point.

N1b

Slim Unfortunately (but also fortunately for us iOS users), you're both incorrect. On iOS, if you want to call someone from iMessage, you just hit the little Video Camera icon in the top right from the conversation view, and choose FaceTime Audio (or Video)

Looks like this is the last straw you cling to after everything else was debunked. You can talk semantics about what "baked in" means, but what about all the other privacy invasive things one has to endure on an iPhone when it comes to protecting your data against big tech, e.g. Apple themselves?

Your wrong ideas have been called out many times here, you either reflect on it and become smarter or you stick to your cognitive dissonance. What's annoying to me and probably others is that you effectively harm people by spreading misinformation. Why not showing the facts and let people make their own decision?

I can come up with a lot of good reasons in favor of an iPhone. Security, simplicity, eco system, convenience, peer groups, status, design, etc.. They are all valid and I wouldn't criticize anyone on iOS that intentionally chooses these reasons over privacy and extended security that one would get on GOS. Many of my peers do and sometimes I envy them for the functionality they have between Apple devices.

n3t_admin Okay, but you believe Apple, a profit driven company that will collaborate with every government around the world, advertisers, Google (out of all!) and actual regimes vs. a completely open source project, where you can verify any claim they make yourself.
That's weird.

Good point. Apple takes a lot of money every year to allow Google track iPhone users. Then turns around and claims "iPhone = privacy" to their user base, even hiding the true privacy policy behind a nice marketing page of not legally binding claims.

Dragon

n3t_admin coming to a country near you soon.

Is that trademarked or can I use it for non commercial messages...

n3t_admin Would my bank 2FA work? I don't know.

So you never even went to the step of installing your apps and you say it's "too much of a hassle"? What the fuck.

lol, Didn't even search the web?

N1b Good point. Apple takes a lot of money every year to allow Google track iPhone users. Then turns around and claims "iPhone = privacy" to their user base, even hiding the true privacy policy behind a nice marketing page of not legally binding claims.

This is legally binding? [https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/]

secrec I can't think of a single valid reason. Some may talk about security, but I refuse to trust anything if I can't actually READ THE CODE. Without source code, the only thing you have to go on for trust is THEIR WORD, and their word means absolutely NOTHING to me.

Within a threat model, when even running GOS can be a threat iOS would be preferred.

secrec

Curious What are the real reasons to go with iOS as daily drive

I can't think of a single valid reason. Some may talk about security, but I refuse to trust anything if I can't actually READ THE CODE. Without source code, the only thing you have to go on for trust is THEIR WORD, and their word means absolutely NOTHING to me.

N1b

Dragon yes, I'm talking https://www.apple.com/privacy/ vs https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/

Which one do you think is easier to find, easier to read and higher ranked in search engines, while the other is the actual one? None of that's illegal of course, but for me this looks like deception and dark patterns.

But honestly, it was not my main point. Apple is simply not private, but a data hoarding big tech company just like Google, Meta, Amazon and Microsoft. The main difference is that they hide/gaslight it much better, which makes them even more dangerous to a degree. I recommend this video which goes into more details.

However, Apple does a lot of good things in other departments as mentioned. If people choose iOS over GOS for any reason other than privacy, it's easy to understand and agree with.

secrec

Dragon This is legally binding?

As long as you trust their word (I trust nobody), AND some government doesn't override them (high probability).

secrec

Dragon Within a threat model, when even running GOS can be a threat iOS would be preferred.

That's a pretty messed up threat model, and if you're in that strict of a threat, apple DEFINITELY can't be trusted, so I'd have to disagree with you on that. Also a simple solution is a duress mode that can wipe not just the userdata partition, but the OS partitions as well.

Pocketstar

Over the years I improved my view on Apple, and they have great hardware, but I would never be able to live with the closed software which Apple has alot of external control over, I want to be able to attent a protest knowing TOR or a VPN app would still be there at my location. (Even though, the country I live in they don't stifle protesters that way (yet). (I was formerly referring to the Hong-Kong protests where Apple had limited access to certain apps that could anonymize the protesters)
But if they would have the source code opened up, who knows?
For others it may be a good choice, depending on their threat-level, but GrapheneOS is a better choice IMO.

Dragon

secrec You have better alternatives to iOS?, other than GOS which can't be used as mentioned before.

Pocketstar

This in an old article from 2018 that explains iCloud data in China is stored on state-controlled servers.
I cannot confirm this information is still valid in 2025 though.
https://mashable.com/article/china-government-apple-icloud-data
I think Apple did not have much of a choice though...
With GrapheneOS people have more autonomy and it is open source as well.

secrec

Pocketstar Its exactly crap like that that proves you can't trust apple, and it doesn't matter if they still do that now, it matters that they HAVE done things like that, proving that they are willing to under certain circumstances.

mmmm

secrec I agree, but I very much doubt they had a choice short of actually stopping the service entirely which isn’t in their (or even many of their users interests). As long as they communicate that (which I think if I remember correctly, that they gave people warning about it) as they did with the uk encrypted icloud stuff, which is also nonsense but very much of the same thing. I fail to see what else a massive for profit entity would do. As long as it’s communicated to their users.

Pocketstar

mmmm If Apple did not have a closed OS, users could avoid this nightmare themselves, just like the way people have more control with GrapheneOS because of AOSP.
It was Apple's choice to have it closed and therefore countries be able to manipulate them with government mandates, just like what happened to the protesters in Hong Kong.

secrec

mmmm As long as it’s communicated to their users.

That isn't necessarily an option. They can be ordered to keep it quiet.

n3t_admin

Pocketstar It was Apple's choice to have it closed and therefore countries be able to manipulate them with government mandates, just like what happened to the protesters in Hong Kong.

But you will have to agree that Google is heading in the same direction with Android.

It's a massive pain in the rear for them to keep 2 versions of Android maintained, so they moved to their "internal" version as the main branch, more or less. The proprietary parts of Android is what makes them money and keeps the show running. Having an open OS is bad for them - and they know it. Which is why they are cracking down on it so much lately.

Believe me, if they could, they would have never allowed for AOSP to be open source. It just seemed like a good idea at the time - so it's open source for historical reasons, mostly.

mmmm

Pocketstar That’s why I’m here in the first place. Their ludicrous control!

mmmm

n3t_admin Believe me, if they could, they would have never allowed for AOSP to be open source. It just seemed like a good idea at the time - so it's open source for historical reasons, mostly

It was a great idea, that’s probably why they now have such a massive market share. Same with windows and their MO. I doubt very much they regret it. But yes they sure are moving to ‘close the loophole’ now they have what they want.

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