lcalamar Idk, they probably program some heavy curation into it. But yeah as they say "garbage in, garbage out".

      Did you know that average driver breakes the law 96 times a year without even realizing it and not getting punished for it. But they want to get hold of your data even if you do nothing wrong. It's time you do something about it. Get in control. For your own good.

      The thing is most of us on here know probably most things about privacy and why its important. The difficult thing is relaying that over to someone who is, to be frank about it "absolutely clueless"

      I often lend friends computer magazines etc which tend to have privacy tips/advice and at least that way its coming from somewhere neutral. I think it would be beneficial to list on here the best Youtube videos for the complete novice.

        Shanoa Zuboff "Surveillance Capitalism" is an eye-opener. If someone is not interested is privacy in the digital age, they will most likely not read that, but it does speak about so much more: Social structures, global economy, how we arrived at this point in time with such a vast amount of data being created everyday.

        I gave up on trying to "convert" people or force them to take the matter seriously. If they aren't interested and open to new perspectives, it's a lost cause. I don't want to feel like a vegan trying to bring people to stop eating meat, but if anyone is using some personal data of mine in a dumb way, I will tell them and try to be polite in doing so, always giving a short explanation of what I mean.

          • BByku

            • Post #46

            Lot's of great pro privacy arguments in this thread. Sadly, from experience, promoting privacy friendly solutions is like throwing pearls before swines. Your average normie does not even have or is interrested in having knowledge to understand how he is being tracked. A person was genuinely shocked when seeing me click deny all consent on the website with comment like "Won't it stop working properly now?". I've heard argument against DuckDuckGo that was "Lol, what a silly name, just use Google like everyone does". And that is from someone I considered otherwise intelligent. This is the level of awareness we're dealing with. People are uninterrested and most will double down at the slightest moment of inconvenience. FWIW I forcefully installed Signal on the phones of my close ones and that is as much I could do regarding people that are closest to me. They still reflexively default to WA if its them trying to contact me. Rant off.

            Instead of trying to convince people to care about their privacy, I recently changed tactics. You see, to the majority of people online privacy gives them no value, therefore you have to give them something that does give them value.
            In this case, the ability to to watch YouTube with no ads. After showing them how to install Brave, the joy on their faces when they watch their first ad free video is noticeable. Of course, that's after they have gotten past the "trauma" of having to do something as simple as installing a different browser :)

            • Eelih

              • Post #49

              umbrin688

              Zuboff made a name for herself in the 1990s by correctly predicting the future impact of the internet (in 1988). Her book on Surveillance Capitalism (a term that she coined) promises to do the same by providing the first definitive look under the hood of the Google business model. The logic she explores has made its way into every sector of the economy and is inherently anti-privacy. Anyone who wants to understand "why privacy" should put in the effort to understand her contributions, especially the idea of instrumentarian power and why it's more of a concern going forward than totalitarian power. Her takes on Persuasive Technology (BJ Fogg), Nudging (Thaler & Sunstein), and Social Physics (Pentland) and how these ideas are reorganizing societies in more authoritarian directions are very insightful. This is happening top-down in China and bottom up in the US (thru huge "markets in behavioral futures"). A good followup read is "Technofeudalism" by Yanis Varoufakis.

              I'm pretty sure Zuboff would heap praise the GrapheneOS project. She is very hopeful about the future, largely because of community driven projects like this one, which act in opposition to Big Tech's drive to impose machine logic on the rest of us.

                DeletedUser127
                Well written.

                Just because they have been told they can't do that, doesn't mean that they stop.

                  elih "why privacy" matters and why it it may not be sufficient.

                  Huge point made here.

                  It is valid to assume that no matter what steps anyone does to 'stay private', the best you can do is turn down the flow of information a bit. It is likely impossible to stop it completely other than never going online.

                  I took a partial step towards going 'offline' when I purchased and used a LightPhone for a couple years. since all I did was use it for calls and texting (yes,fully understand even THAT isn't secure)... there wasn't much online data being 'stolen'. I turned down the firehose to a dribble.

                  However, over time, the effort to use that device just became too much for the benefits I gained.

                  Using GOS and privacy based browsers as well as other 'privacy' recommendations - I can tell that my efforts, while not completely for naught, have just slowed things down a bit. :(

                  For now - it is a balancing act - at best.

                    umbrin688 Yeah - can't 'convert' people.

                    At this point I am trying to explain to friends/family/peers the reasons privacy is important to me. That's about the best anyone can do!

                      Zuboff is also an excellent public speaker. Here's a recent example
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afOWUuimwOI

                      Optimist or pessimist, I think all can agree we're in a period of civilization level change, which can be disorienting and fertile ground for charlatans. Zuboff has a laser focus on the issues that really matter for privacy at this level with no hint of trying to sell you the latest snake-oil. At some point privacy relevant decisions come down to costs and benefits. When the information environment is built on hidden costs and targeted benefits, those decisions are bound to be sub-optimal at best (witness the 2007-8 financial collapse, for example, which pales in scale and scope). I barely even talk about privacy anymore. It's too easy to fall into rabbit holes of misinformation. Instead I prefer to talk about the cool tools that I use to navigate the internet (like GrapheneOS) and how they allow me to avoid the hidden costs, which I'm happy to elaborate, and enjoy the benefits -- without the targeted manipulation.

                      elih it is a huge book to be fair. i'm still in the first 1/3rd of it. but the great thing is that there are many speeches from Zuboff out there to download and listen to, if someone doesn't like reading or is impatient.

                      Robert Epstein recently did an extremely interesting interview with Joe Rogan
                      https://dcs-spotify.megaphone.fm/GLT7452376209.mp3

                        secrec this. Every category of people and their activities are just a regime change away from being persecuted.

                          6 days later

                          r134a This is outstanding... some really great stuff in this (I especially like that we all commit 3 federal crimes a day... and that with the information the government has - a case can be made against any of us for anything!)...

                          Looking for a transcript though...