Can I pay someone to remove modem?

angela

I don't want the cellular modem in Graphene.

I am too concerned (without evidence) about advanced hardware-level exploits interfacing between the modem and other components. I don't understand the cellular technology or the operating system structure enough to not worry about it being hackable and follow the arguments that it's safe. If I were a good coder or had a background in computer science, or if I were less of a paranoid person, I probably would not be fearful. It is not the code of the Operating System that makes me fearful, it's just fear of Pixels, which could be an irrational fear.

I can monitor packets via WiFi and can't with the cellular modem. I realize there are some arguments that monioring packets isn't necessary in Graphene but it's making me too uncomfortable being unable to see the packets from the modem so I want to give up convenience and get rid of it.

I don't know how to do it. Could I ask a cell phone technician to do it? Has anyone done it and had success? Does it vary by model?

de0u

angela I believe the current (first) generation Pixel Tablet devices completely lack a cellular modem.

angela

de0u It's too big to slip into a pocket.

23Sha-ger

A phone with no sim card and in airplane mode achieves the same goal.
You don't talk to cell towers or even passively pinging them, unless you make an emergency call,
and only then it's just a voice channel to 911 or whatever your country emergency number is.
There is no way for an adversary to track or attack you when you don't have any identifier on the network.
If you want to use your WiFi example, it is equivalent to a wireless client not associated to any access point.

A "phone technician"? We are talking about some serious soldering skills here, it ain't no cracked screen or battery replacement: https://www.techinsights.com/blog/teardown/examination-5g-radio-google-pixel-6-pro
If you have someone in your area willing to attempt that unnecessary process, you can try.

angela

23Sha-ger It only achieves the same goal if I trust there is not some hardware level exploit that allows access into the cellular modem. If I had a compromised device, I wouldn't know since I can't look at outgoing cellular activity.

I could just put it into a faraday bag when not in use, but I am careless and I factor in my own carelessness. I hate trusting technology.

Cold_Beer

angela It’s a shame there isn’t something like a “Pixel Pod”, like the ipod used to be.
Perfect size.

DeletedUser26

angela The modem is separated from the rest of the device via IOMMU anyway so the damage they could do is minimal. It’s just a fact of life that you have to trust your hardware to work the way it’s supposed to, but if it didn’t security researchers would surely know about it sooner or later and it would be big news.

angela

DeletedUser26 Security researchers are not always discovering exploits right away.

I don't understand what you meant about IOMUU and how that matters.

There is a eSIM in this. I don't trust that an adversary couldn't determine based on some pattern that the eSIM is mine, somehow activate it or track it by connecting to the modem (such as the cellular tower sending a "stay on" ping or something that isn't publicly disclosed) and for the cellular modem to send packets while off.

A lot of times trusting anything is bad. From the judas goat to the witch in hansel and gretel, trust is not always a smart thing. This has an eSIM and microphone. I need the cellular modem out of it.

de0u

angela This has an eSIM and microphone. I need the cellular modem out of it.

On the one hand... the Wi-Fi and Bluetooth firmware is probably roughly as complicated and roughly as exploitable as the cellular baseband firmware. If you control the relevant Wi-Fi router you can see packets received by it, but seeing packets sent elsewhere would require expensive equipment and/or a lot of work. Modern radios are pretty complicated -- all of them.

On the other hand, given what you've written so far, this may be of interest: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/15290-imei-sucessfully-gone

DeletedUser26

Cold_Beer I think the demand for those is long gone sadly. People used to get an iPod touch for their kid before they felt like they were ready for a phone but nowadays parents just buy their kid a phone.

de0u

DeletedUser26 People used to get an iPod touch for their kid before they felt like they were ready for a phone but nowadays parents just buy their kid a phone.

Kids these days don't really want phone calls; they want TikTok, Instagram, etc., so a non-phone device with Internet access would be basically the same as a phone. A non-phone device can even install a VoIP client.

I think it may be possible to get cheap small low-end Android tablets that aren't phones... but that is not a place to look for security and privacy.

23Sha-ger

de0u
I was about to say the same. If you take the actual "phone" part out of the phone, then GOS
will make little benefit over just stock de-googled GSI on small tablets, and they do exist, plenty
of them, on Amazon and Aliexpress. Those are Wi-Fi only devices in all shape and form, that lack
a cellular modem. But they run Android 14, you can install Shelter on them, even lock each app in
an own profile, the imagination is limitless. Does it make a usable daily driver for an adult? I don't know.

de0u

23Sha-ger If you take the actual "phone" part out of the phone, then GOS will make little benefit over just stock de-googled GSI on small tablets, and they do exist, plenty of them, on Amazon and Aliexpress.

Probably not with multiple years of firmware support (and the baseline firmware security might not be super-strong).

That said, some of them are cheap!

23Sha-ger

angela 23Sha-ger Most of them are not rootable so Google has root access through Play Services

Root-able? and you want to disassemble your physical modem to run a rooted GOS?
Rootable devices open way more attack surfaces than a modem in airplane mode.
Either you are poorly educated on the technical side of things or just trolling. I'm done.

other8026

Too much paranoia going on in this post.

There is no evidence of hardware backdoors in Pixels. Android is already very secure and GrapheneOS is even more secure. If there's an attacker that has the resources to perform such a thing, they are unlikely to target people on this forum. They would more likely target someone rich or powerful.

Use airplane mode + wifi if needed. This isnt the forum to discuss imaginary hackers who are exploiting our phones.