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Xtreix Not a reliable source? These are proven facts, as with cryptoAG and others. Really stop with the marketing beliefs

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[deleted] And again almost all the web is encrypted, so as far as the internet is concerned whether you have a vpn or not it's the same

No. You’re missing the point. The key difference, all other things being equal, is who sees where you’re going.

It’s down to you whether you choose to trust a privacy centric, open source, generally well regarded VPN such as Proton, Mullvad or IVPN with this info, or whether you trust Bouygues, SFR, Free or Orange.

I can understand that many people are rightly worried about VPNs, but it’s possible to be prudent with your choice. Don’t be duped that all VPNs are bad, in the same way that I am not duped that they are a magic bullet.

On the other hand, it’s impossible to know what the ISP companies are doing with your browsing info.

Choose your weapons wisely, but aside from being the gateway, a normal isp won’t be one of my choices.

Xtreix It's not a reliable source.

The original source was from a hacker group in a spreadsheet.

It is well known that the NSA has been using the american IT domination in Europe as well. The good result is that it helped developing solutions to ensure better privacy for Europeans, although the solutions are often a joke.

I don't consider any of the consumer services calling themselves VPN as a true VPN. Many of them are just the same service branded differently and are pretty shady, and none of them can provide you with a technical guarantee that you and/or your data are not logged/collected/monitored. If you need to anonymize yourself, use Tor/Onion. True VPNs are used to preserve privacy and secrecy of your data while travelling across insecure networks and have nothing to do with anonymizing. I'm running a VPN on my home gateway to be able to access services I run on my LAN.

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MoonshineMidnight
Thanks, and yea I agree with everything you stated. I think if you can set it up anonymously, do it, but if you trust that the VPN provider does not log then it's not that big of a concern. Almost anything is going to better than allowing your ISP to manage your internet traffic and you're right regarding reputation and their business, this is essentially the entire foundation of Proton. If Proton was not transparent and logged, their business would tank. Definately agree (although not a magic bullet) that geolocation regarding providers (and subsequently their jurisdiction) matters.

[deleted] It's all in French, it was originally in an arte report on computer security, but I can't find it, I can't remember which one it was.

Interesting... I have found a Temps Présent report about Sun Microsystems, but it's too old and not on this topic: https://pages.rts.ch/emissions/temps-present/societe-moeurs/867088-les-petites-soeurs-de-big-brother.html

If you can find the one in question, I would be interested. But thanks for the pointer you have already provided!

    other8026 locked the discussion .

    After taking some time to read through this thread, I think there are some important things that need to be said.

    The discussion in this thread is quickly turning into arguing in circles. I'm thinking that this means that the discussion can be put to rest for now, so unless another moderator decides to unlock this discussion, I will leave it locked. I have removed all comments where the poster is being rude or argumentative. I would invite everyone involved to revisit the GrapheneOS Code of Conduct.

    When discussing divisive topics, please be respectful. We have community members from all over the world. They may have different opinions, priorities, and life experiences. We can discuss facts about VPNs, but when it comes to something like how much can we trust VPNs, arguments can start to become too subjective.

    All that said, I hope those involved can take some time to cool down and I'm looking forward to seeing you around the forum in 2024!