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  • New GrapheneOS user Adtech mitigation

I recently installed GrapheneOS on a Pixel 8 in an attempt to take my life back from Adtech. I have trolled through forums and subreddits but they all seem to be quite technical and I need some help how it works and if it's even worth it. I find the GrapheneOS installation guide great but the rest after that seems either overly vague or overly technical.

Does the sandboxing of google play prevent google related adtech and ad trackers?

How much does the OS actually mitigate adtech?

If you sign into a google account on the sandboxed play store, what affect will that have on the google related trackers with other apps?

What is the point of creating separate profiles if the OS is contained already?

What is the best way to set up graphene to become as invisible to ad tech as possible?

    Autogeneratedusername

    Does the sandboxing of google play prevent google related adtech and ad trackers?

    It won't prevent ads and trackers, but it will allow you to to restrict permissions such as location, camera, microphone and file access. The Play services shouldn't be able to listen through your microphone or determine your precise location without you granting permission.

    What is the point of creating separate profiles if the OS is contained already?

    Applications in the same profile can communicate with each other using interprocess communication provided both applications allow such communication.

    What is the best way to set up graphene to become as invisible to ad tech as possible?

    It depends on what you mean by "best." Avoiding all applications with trackers would make you as near to "invisible" as you can get. The cost would be not having access to many applications since they often have some sort of trackers.

    Autogeneratedusername You aren't going to stop 100% of ad trackers, ever.

    GrapheneOS, by itself, will not do any ad related network calls (exception being the web browser)

    What does 'OS is contained already' mean? Not sure what you are talking about....People make more than one users on GOS for two reasons

    1.) Shared phone. This means another user can't access the other users files and apps
    2.) Google Sandbox, since google play services WILL phone home for a collection of reasons, including 'adtech'

    'If you sign into a google account on the sandboxed play store, what affect will that have on the google related trackers with other apps', whatever permissions you give it, the app will have access to, including networking.

    'What is the best way to set up graphene to become as invisible to ad tech as possible?'

    As possible? Don't use the web browser, no sandboxed play store, and not connected to WiFI or cellar data. Would let you make calls and texts, that's about it.

    Interesting, so would you say that graphene is more security focused than privacy focused? Adtech is what concerns me mostly as I have seen how powerful it can be.

      Autogeneratedusername
      It is true that Graphene prioritizes security over privacy, but it is not true that it is not also privacy focused. Privacy requires good security. It isn't magic and can't prevent all ads and tracking but it can give strong protection with good OPSEC.

      The OS itself won't spy on you which is more than can be said for Android and iOS, and IG provides additional options such as sensor and network permissions.

      Autogeneratedusername Does the sandboxing of google play prevent google related adtech and ad trackers?

      "Sandboxed google play" allows the installation and usability of the 3 essential google components onto the AOSP operating system. These 3 are Google Services Framework, Google Play Services, and Google Play Store. These 3 components allow you to have (almost) full functionality of play store features.

      Additionally Sandboxed Google Play strips all privileged access of those 3 components such that they become like "regular" apps and subject to the normal permission structure of the android OS. So they no longer have access to the things they previously had access to. Also they no longer have any direct access to hardware identifiers such as IMEI, SIM info, etc. More precise details about this is explained on the Graphene OS website.

      Autogeneratedusername How much does the OS actually mitigate adtech?

      On graphene OS, apps cant access each other's data and they cant talk to each other, UNLESS they both "plan and agree" to do so. They can do this through IPC (inter process communication) or coordinated file sharing (if both have access to the same file). Graphene OS's "Storage Scopes" feature can prevent the "file access" method. Therefore advertising or other private data sharing can only happen if both apps intentionally "collude”. So if you have a privacy respecting app installed, non privacy respecting apps cant steal anything from it. However if you have 2 non-privacy-respecting apps installed (like instagram, whatsapp, uber, etc.) its possible and maybe likely that they DO cross feed data to each other (on same profile).

      If you install " Sandboxed Google Play", then Google Play can communicate with any app that normally communicates with Google Play and therefore google gains access to the data that the app willingly shares with google. The app can share identifying information like your username, email, phone, or credit card info (and many more things) with the sandboxed google play even if you haven't logged into a google account.

      Logging into a google account will then associate that data further and with that google account and those apps can also see your google account if access to has been granted to them by google play.

      If the app doesn't feed private data to GP then GP will still see the app present, but wont know any information about who is using it.

      Autogeneratedusername If you sign into a google account on the sandboxed play store, what affect will that have on the google related trackers with other apps?

      Aside from the above mentioned, logging into a google account will also "associate" this "instance" of GP with your google account, even if you log out after. Therefore everything you do on this profile that this instance of GP "can see" can technically get associated with that google account in the future even if its never logged in again. Logging into a google account "brings" all your previously gathered info about you and your "identity" into this new profile and associates it with this instance of GP permanently.
      Creating a new account and then logging into it "elsewhere" from other devices does the same thing.

      Autogeneratedusername What is the point of creating separate profiles if the OS is contained already?

      Profiles have no access to each other. They are "almost" like having separate phones. Therefore while apps on same profile can "see" and "talk" to each other, apps on different profiles cannot. This is useful for isolating multiple privacy unrespecting apps from each other so they cant collude.

      Autogeneratedusername What is the best way to set up graphene to become as invisible to ad tech as possible?

      This heavily depends on what apps you want to use. Privacy respecting apps are generally not a problem and can be installed anywhere and together. The issue is using privacy unrespecting apps and controlling what they can see and "who else" can see and talk to them. Sometimes its desired to separate these apps from google play itself so that they don't get associated with a google play "Instance". Sometimes this association is unavoidable.

      Some apps require google play AND they have access to your real identity (amazon, uber, bank, etc). In this cases its practical to put all these apps in one profile under the same roof since they all know you and share data with google. In this case you are " containing" them to a dedicated space and using profiles you can prevent "leaking" of data from these apps to other apps and vice versa.

      If you want to deal with general tracking its VERY important not to expose your IP as it significantly identifies you. So a VPN is essential. You can also use some form of dns protection for added tracking prevention. Proper use of browsers and understanding of "fingerprinting" would also be helpful here.

      The answer is very complicated and different for each individual, but hopefully the heuristics I've told you here are good enough to give you the big picture.

      For most privacy, simply be mindful of which app can see "what" and "who" if installed. Use always on vpn from a "good" provider and don't "cross contaminate".

      Damn, i think this was a pretty good write up. I wish i had a blog.

        Forgot to mention a few things.

        There are some hardcoded internet comms that are built into AOSP that connect to google and others than can give away identifiable info about the user. In graphene OS as well as a few other privacy OSes these have been removed and replaced with better options.

        • dns
        • gps (supl)
        • time servers
        • internet connectivity servers
        • ? ...etc

        Also the main issue in privacy is not "ads". Its being "identified" and "tracked" and have data gathered and built-up on you and associated with new things you do. The idea is to curtail this.

        "What is the best way to set up graphene to become as invisible to ad tech as possible?"

        As stated before, the best approach is to use privacy friendly apps and only those you need.

        Aside of that you can still block trackers in DNS level.
        You can use a VPN with ad/tracking blocking capabilities.
        Or you can set up a private DNS under settings.
        Or use an app like nextguard (will take the VPN slot)

        Remember that every Information you willingly give to an application will still be used to build a profile.

        Autogeneratedusername Interesting, so would you say that graphene is more security focused than privacy focused? Adtech is what concerns me mostly as I have seen how powerful it can be.

        You are looking for privacy.

        To give you a simple answer without all the technical shenanigans, if you want privacy, then I don't thing there is a better option than GOS. The combination of security and privacy features that it offers amalgamate to a level of privacy control that you can't get anywhere else. End of story.

        • [deleted]

        • Edited

        Autogeneratedusername There are many approaches to privacy too. Just blocking adtech isn't privacy.

        @Autogeneratedusername Also do note that apps can communicate with each other even if they are in seperate profiles, provided that both of them have the Network permission. This type of communication is done via localhost, which is the device itself in networking, but routed by the TCP/IP layer

          6 days later

          Last year i ran GOS for 6Months.
          Yes you have to put in extra work to stop adtech, but its possible (depending on your usage)
          Then i switched back to stock.
          I never had my mind at peace since (a bit exaggerated maybe).
          The things you have to do on OS level to get the same privacy from GOS is just impossible. Even if you try, you'll never now for sure what you Phone is doing in the background.

          Finally switched back to GOS, setup my humble 10$ monthly donation via github and will never look back.

          The only thing i want to be able is to be in control of what my phone is doing. Nothing more.

          I use MullvadVpN with Ad/Tracking blocking on DNS level. This is good enough for me. Just be aware what apps you are using and what data you give them willingly, not Ad/Tracking Blocker can save you from that

            a month later

            FlyingRacoon Hi can you explain more about what the ad/tracking blocking on Mullvad does?

            I'm currently exploring the option for me to use mainstream apps on my GOS device, while also blocking tracking that is bundled with the app.

            For example, take the simple payment app, Venmo. It constantly uploads device and profile data to google and other tracers.

            Does this MullVad tracking blocker make great strides in blocking this, while maintaining the functionality of the app?

            Thanks

              6 days later

              protonuser2
              You shouldn't rely on such tracking blockers for effectiveness. These blockers might block some addresses and IPs that an app like venmo uses to connect to analytics servers to upload data. However blocking these paths does not guarantee actual blockage because apps like venmo could be programmed to send data to their own server if the analytics server path is failing (as a back up plan). You will not then be able to block that path because it might disable to whole app. Therefore blocking "trackers" through network blocking "might" help, it also might not. Hence its not reliable.

              The better way to deal with this is to let the app upload "all it wants" but actually not have any actual "data" to upload. By isolating an app in a separate profile you are giving it a separate androidID and preventing IPC. This strongly limits the app from acquiring any more data about your system than it already has access to. This is better than having apps in one profile and using blockers. You could use blockers on that profile but in reality its not necessary at all. Makes no difference.

              10 days later

              User2288 I keep a PKM database, may I put your blog-less write up into my PKM for both personal use and for others who may ask this again on here in the future?

                N3rdTek Off topic, but may I ask what app(s) you use for your PKM ?