Best email providers

secrec

Exhort14 Proton can’t read your message

Of course they can. They may store them encrypted in a manner that they can't re-read them, but in the process of receiving messages from another service provider, or sending to, that message MUST be decrypted. The only thing that would prevent them from reading that message is any encryption applied at the client level (i.e. PGP).

mmmm

secrec you'll have to provide a source for that fud. Edit to clarify proton to proton messages, I'm not sure about to and from other services.

2WsF

Tuta and proton also have the option to password protect an email. In that case, recipient gets an email from you with a link to open the secure email. There they can enter the password and read the email. It's a decent option if you're messaging someone outside the provider but don't use pgp, but the tricky part is securely sharing the password.

paprikatongue

2WsF I saw that! Honestly its a little round about but its not a bad feature. I would have a much easier time convincing people I know to exchange a code by signal for something with sensitive financial info for example, than I would teaching them about asymmetric encryption lol

GrouchyGrape

mmmm proton to proton is supposedly properly E2EE. Anything coming from another provider (that isn't client side encrypted), is fully readable by both proton as well as the other provider. It doesn't matter what proton does to the email once they get it, it still left and arrived in "plaintext".

secrec

mmmm Edit to clarify proton to proton messages

I was very specific when I used the words "from another service provider". I don't know a single person who uses proton, and I bet that the same could be said of the vast majority of people. So proton to proton is fundamentally irrelevant.

byte21516

I can suggest Posteo and Tutanota.

brev

paprikatongue I'm just needing an email provider that's E2EE and doesn't work hand in hand with big brother like gmail or protonmail.

Proton Mail doesn't work hand-in-hand with Big Brother, they comply with court orders from Swiss courts, much like any other legal email provider does.

I'm a paid Proton user*, but you also must understand that unless you're messaging another Proton user or using PGP, it's not really E2EE.

Email is a fundamentally insecure protocol.

*for the most part I'm happy, my renewal is up soon and I'm considering downgrading from their Unlimited plan to the Mail Plus plan and investing the difference in some other providers (like a public cloud with a working Linux client etc.). I do like the company, but I am dissatisfied with their release of half-baked products and lack of proper Linux support.

secrec

brev Email is a fundamentally insecure protocol.

The word you're looking for is actually "unsecure". Insecure is a mental state -- self doubt.

The tools do exist to make email secure, even between different service providers, but people need to choose to use those tools. I honestly believe that its an easier task to convince people to use those tools than it is to convince them to change service providers.

2WsF

Same with tuta. Tuta to tuta traffic is e2ee, but otherwise it's not. Proton's poor linux support was a huge bummer, switching email providers is a hassle

mmmm

secrec I don't know a single person who uses proton, and I bet that the same could be said of the vast majority of people. So proton to proton is fundamentally irrelevant.

Thats called making up facts.

secrec

mmmm No, that's called reality.

Shadowshading

secrec I second this. I don't know a single person using Proton either. Or Tuta. About a year ago I tried to get some of my family to get on the Proton family plan, my treat. Not interested. I've got about 50 personal contacts in my email, none of them are Proton addresses. I am of the belief that most people care but simply can't stomach making a change.

secrec

Shadowshading Which is exactly why I said its probably easier to convince people to use the tools available to secure their existing email.

mmmm

Shadowshading I second this. I don't know a single person using

Cool so that's two of you. Out of the entire world. That's settled then. Protonmail is fundamentally irrelevant.

DeletedUser499

mmmm
Are you secretly Dr Andy Yen?

I don't use Proton mail, never seen a proton mail addressed email in my inbox.
Irrelevant? To me yes... To millions of Proton Mail users? No.

Offliner-A-GoGo

I am one of those people. I have never received a single email with Proton in the sender field out of thousands of emails. I am also the only one in my circle of friends and family who uses a paid email provider (Posteo). But that's not really the topic here. I just wanted to say that these posts made me think more about encryption again and also provided me with useful information that I didn't have before. Thank you for that.

secrec

https://electroiq.com/stats/protonmail-vs-gmail-statistics/

That kinda says all you need to know. Proton has a negligible share of the market.

Offliner-A-GoGo

...And yet we need providers like this! We should do more to convince people. And encryption needs to be made even easier (and, unfortunately, more foolproof)!

secrec

Offliner-A-GoGo And yet we need providers like this!

No we don't. Forcing people to be stuck to a provider is a fundamentally wrong approach. The issue is that the solution for encryption must be able to span across DIFFERENT and even UNTRUSTWORTHY service providers. Think about this; if you trust the service provider, why do you even need end-to-end encryption?

We already have the tools needed in order to implement end-to-end email encryption WITHOUT being bound to a service provider, and WITHOUT having to even trust them. The problem is that the tools aren't necessarily intuitive and the majority of people aren't even aware of them.

The focus therefore needs to be in educating people and improving the tools.

schklom

secrec > The focus therefore needs to be in educating people and improving the tools.

That's pretty much what Proton is trying to do in a different approach. If you use Proton and message someone using Proton, you don't need to care about the tools, you're safe by default. And if someone knows PGP and finds your key, they can email you, and when you reply Proton handles PGP by itself.

It is unintuitive and there is a learning curve, so people just aren't interested until they need to be.
In addition, PGP has many problems, e.g. no forward secrecy, so if one wants privacy then Signal is better than PGP.

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