GrapheneOS privacy enhancement when used like a normal phone

crosst

Hey there! :)
If I install GrapheneOS and use it exactly like the stock OS - only one profile, Google framework, Play services and Play Store installed plus some Google apps like Maps and YouTube - are there significant privacy enhancements in comparison to just using the stock OS this way?

Xtreix

crosst Hi and welcome. Yes, as mentioned above, you still benefit from significant improvements in security and privacy, you may also be interested in reading this : https://seprand.github.io/articles/best-user-profile-setup/

wizoatk

https://grapheneos.org/features

https://grapheneos.org/faq

Skorp

Yes! Very much so. You gain all of the additional hardening that GOS has, along with the privacy improvements of Play Services running as unprivileged.

The links above detail the improvements over stock AOSP.

Eirikr70

You're describing my phone aren't you?

DeletedUser495

Despite all the positive input this is nothing that can't be a great deal improved by ditching certain apps and services altogether and swiching some for more privacy friendly alternatives. Good enough for beginners I would say but by no means sufficient for those who want to go further or those who's lives depend on it.

Skorp

DeletedUser495

Some things to consider:

This person did not describe that sort of threat model, only asking if they would still receive the benefits of using GrapheneOS if they used it "as one would use the stock OS" which is to say, with something with privileged Play Services.
It isn't a "beginner" stage of anything to install GOS and use it in this way. And it is not more "advanced" to use other services, or not use Play Services at all.
Often enough people will go very much out of their way to shun and migrate from so-called "privacy invasive" services and fall into using services that have similar or worse problems, but just aren't from "big tech". Instead, one should learn to evaluate services on their merits. There are plenty of closed source, secure, and privacy friendly features and services that are also developed by "big tech".

To OP, I would suggest the following as a general rule of thumb for how to use your device:

Less is More: Only install apps that you need and try to minimize them if you can. If you need an app, then you need it.
Secure Communications: Prefer Molly or Signal first, then other e2ee communication, then SMS and carrier calls as a last resort.

DeletedUser495

Skorp I agree, (but) along with what's been said, anti mass surveillance control (including Google) should be incorporated in everyone's threat model and by far not enough people pay satisfactory attention to their web browsing habits and its security (i.e. using gecko).

Skorp

DeletedUser495

I will try not to go too far off topic from the original post here.
I can understand to an extent, but I don't necessarily agree that we get to decide for anyone what their threat model does and does not include. Awareness and informed decisions are key here.

Also, I am not clear if that last bit was advocating or denigrating Gecko.

crosst

Thanks for all your replys, it helps a lot!
I am already halfway done with my degoogling/demicrosoft process (mailbox.org as mail provider, Ente Photos, Fossify Calendar, Filen.io as cloud, ...) and have decided that I will go as far down that rabbithole as I can - without loosing a whole lot of convenience, because I'm gonna be totally honest here: I do it primarily because it's fun and not because I feel particularly threatened by the big companies (additionally it's obviously great not to feel like the product).
So far I didn't loose any convenience at all, quite the contrary, I like the new services a lot!
Back to my original post:
That's the background behind my question, I am looking for a nice middle ground between privacy and convenience with GrapheneOS :)

Skorp

Glad we could be helpful. Feel free to join us in the public chatroom for other questions, too! Folks like to look for app/service suggestions there.

crosst

Skorp Do you mean the discord sever with public chatroom or is there another one I haven't seen yet?

akc3n

crosst see our list of ways to connect to our live chat community:
https://grapheneos.org/contact#community-chat

Skorp

The Discord server is a public chatroom bridged also to Matrix, Telegram, and IRC.
That is the one I speak of, yes.

WestQuester

I've been wondering a similar thing as the OP. I have read a good bit on user profiles but am not quite sure they work how I would like them to. Let me describe my use case.

I'm very interested in privacy as a way of life in addition to security. I have de-googled as much as possible in my life. I have used Protonmail for years, Startpage for searching, Brave for browsing, Signal for messaging, as much as I can.

Apple's privacy policies are (historically) surprisingly good. iMessage, Maps, etc. I lost that when I moved to GrapheneOS so I'm trying to replace that.

I ran into issues where people messaged me using RCS and I never received their messages, so I had to install Google Messages, which I absolutely hated to do, but not corresponding with these people isn't an option. I have tried Magic Earth, Osmand~, and Organic Maps (and have contributed quite a bit to OpenStreetMaps myself) but it just isn't on par with Google Maps or Apple's Maps. So I installed Google Maps as well.

Now I'm concerned that Google has access to my contacts (through Messages) and my location (through Maps, even though I set my App battery usage to Restricted).

If this is a valid concern, how do I get around that? I have not experimented with Users but if I put Messages and Maps in a separate profile, presumably my Messages would just come in as phone numbers and no names associated with them? That's okay but not ideal. Would I get cross-profile notifications for time-sensitive texts from that profile if I'm almost always in my "main" profile? Should I set up just my App stores in the Owner profile and create a "daily" user profile for my regular apps (Signal, browser, utilities) and a "Google" profile for Messages and Maps?

Any advice or thoughts on any of this would be appreciated.

Mystified3527

WestQuester

You might want to put this in a separate post.
What exactly Google has access to depends on the permissions you gave Google. Google cant access anything beyond that. You can also use contact scopes to limit or prevent contact access even when Google requires contact permissions. Because of sandboxed Google play, the Google is no longer privileged and now follows permissions as normal.

Now I'm concerned that Google has access to my contacts (through Messages) and my location (through Maps, even though I set my App battery usage to Restricted).

I don't see how restricting battery usage impacts location access. I would look into the webapp for Google maps, because that might have a privacy benefit, though I am very unsure of this.
For more info on profiles see the first article here https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/21487-seprand-articles-and-guides-about-grapheneos-by-the-community. You can enable notifications across profiles, they will appear as a system notification saying something along the lines of "you have a notification from [app name] in [profile name]". Just make sure the profile stays open and you open it any time after a reboot.

LeslieFH

Just the ability to turn off Network access for individual apps is a bit game-changer privacy-wise.