• Off Topic

  • tempted to transition from GOS to iOS

ZorroV999 it sounds like you made your decision already, and that's good and right. iOS comes with many convenience features and a unified, pretty UI. Compared to almost every Android device they are also better security- and privacy-wise.

I personally would never use an iPhone because of the lack of control. Apple likes to boss you around regarding apps you can install and customization you can apply. There's simply nothing like NewPipe, InnerTune and Molly on iOS. I also don't like their anti-repair agenda, premium prices and "design flaws" (notch, sharp edges, uneven camera bump). And finally I'd felt spied on by Apple at all times because they force me into creating an Apple ID and only use their app store which they track my behavior in to serve me ads.

GrapheneOS gives me all of the control and freedom I desire while adding a lot of security by default on top. The price I pay is to have an inconsistent design and workflow across apps. I understand that for many people iOS makes sense and is probably the right choice for them as long as they are aware of (and okay with) giving Apple a lot of control over their device and data. I just wish Apple was more honest and transparent about this, but you don't become a trillion dollar company with honest marketing I guess.

      Humorist6544 I mean, all of us security/privacy-focused GrapheneOS users have to deal with a lot of different companies. For instance : addy.io, Bitwarden, ente photos, Notesnook, Organic Maps, Proton Calendar/Drive, Brave Sync, etc.

      This is in favour of GrapheneOS to my eyes. I don't have one huge company imposing its apps to me and spying on me but several pieces of software that I choose to assemble to my tastes and choices, giving them trust or not, ... I can even choose to self-host my own cloud services in order to minimise my traces.
      But the fact is - maybe for the weight of the years ? - I don't care about a unified modern design.

        I feel Iphones are good options for people who don't know how to setup their phones or if they don't really want to tinker with anything. Your phone will be secure and somewhat private (except from Apple).

        I guess the important question is what you want to do with your phone. Its a product after all. You pick the one that meets most of your needs

        If Google ever shits the bed on Pixels (and they have) I will switch to iOS. I would enable Lockdown mode and keep it that way. One thing I wish GrapheneOS had is the ability to lock the settings from being changed, such as a parental control mode or profile like iOS. Something to prevent the user from disabling DNS/VPN in both the system and browser, and installation/deletion of apps.

        N1b

        Thank you.
        In my case, the only apps I sideload are LibreTube and Breezy Weather so there is only one serious gotcha : Libretube.

            ZorroV999 If you don't require to sell your Pixel right away, I'd probably just get an iPhone and see if it's everything I hoped for while keeping the GOS Pixel close by for a few weeks. Maybe you won't miss the GOS features at all (for LibreTube you might figure out a workaround with Brave Browser, SponsorBlock or just watch on Desktop).

            Since it wasn't mentioned before here's one more thing: iPhones are usually annoying to use with non-Apple devices because of some gate keeping (try accessing the files from a non-MacOS computer). If you want to fully embrace the journey, you probably want to save up some money for a Macbook, iPods, an Apple watch etc. (plus some extra money for software and apps to add features you'd get for free on any other OS, like proper window management). The more you buy into Apple, the harder it will be to leave if they do something contrary to your values or needs.

            I wish you the best of luck with iOS and that Apple will never fuck this up for you. But honestly it's the same for us, we are depending on the GOS team to keep delivering awesome work and Google to keep making secure phones.

                iPhone is a great choice and is definitely better than most Android options. I have always used an iPhone and Mac, so I am very familiar with how they work. Even though switching to GOS wasn't difficult, I still have my iPhone just in case I do need to switch back to it.

                Advanced Data Protection (ADP) definitely makes the iPhone and Apple a lot more enticing than Google. The fact that a Big Tech company actually offers the option to end-to-end encrypt most of your data on their servers is great, and I hope more Big Tech like Google and Microsoft imitate that. The same can be said with Lockdown Mode; if Google and Microsoft had a similar feature, it would make their devices much more secure.

                The iPhone was always recommended to journalists and others who needed strong security because of their jobs for many years. While the iPhone is much better than most Android OEMs, the differences between it and stock Google Pixel in terms of security aren't that much as Android has improved a lot. But I'd probably still recommend the iPhone because of ADP and Lockdown Mode. My recommendations from best to least in terms of security:

                1. GrapheneOS (best security)
                2. iPhone (great security + option to harden via Lockdown Mode + ADP)
                3. Stock Pixel (great security)
                4. All other Android OEMs

                I do recommend an iPhone or stock Pixel to everyone I know. I know not everyone would want to flash an aftermarket OS onto their phone, so these two are the next best options for a secure phone.

                  Traitor_Force867 This is the reassurance I have been looking for for a long time. Thank you!
                  I actually do recommend systems to other people in the same order as you do, although my knowledge is not very profund. It is good to see that other people think the same.

                    wuseman

                    Can't you get that on GrapheneOS as well?

                    Yes I can. It was just to show the benefit of delving into the Apple walled garden : you get Apple services (TV, Music, Fitness,...) (which aren't the worst privacy-wise]), a range of best-in-class secure devices AND a suite of E2E apps.

                      redfoxjumper one thing I would strongly disagree with your comparison is the battery. Its poor on Iphones as observed myself and had friends complaining about it constantly. Most likely due to all the features and background processes they have running

                        I think the main thing that hasn't been discussed here that is highly relevant is that with everything under one account/ecosystem (Apple) vs many (for VPN, Email, Photos, etc.) is control (or ownership), i.e. if you lose access to your Apple account (it's certainly not unheard of, though less frequent than with Google, I suppose), you lose access to "everything" (potentially not anything that's locally available to you, but you can also get locked out of that).

                        Yes, it's less convenient to have multiple accounts vs a single one, but for me, the control/ownership outweighs everything else.

                          N1b If you want to fully embrace the journey, you probably want to save up some money for a Macbook, iPods, an Apple watch etc

                          Just a self-correction, I meant AirPods, not iPods (these are probably not necessary for most use cases :D).

                          brn I think the main thing that hasn't been discussed here that is highly relevant is that with everything under one account/ecosystem (Apple) vs many (for VPN, Email, Photos, etc.) is control (or ownership)

                          Good point, and it's not just control but also compartmentalization. I feel much better knowing that the data I share are spread over many services. This can be emulated on iOS to the same degree as on Pixel OS, but I assume most people go with everything Apple for convenience, design and interoperability. So your contacts, location, internet usage, health data and behavioural patterns from apps are all stored in one place that Apple controls, and you have to trust Apple to never ever abuse that power, even decades into the future.

                          GOS will give you compartmentalization by default since you need to set it up yourself and having everything (or anything) Google is only one option among many. It's less convenient for sure, and many threat models will be just fine with iOS or Pixel OS.

                              ZorroV999 Their app contains fewer trackers (Exodus), it is said that Apple does not sell this data to build a profile on you, it seems to me that this is also what well-known personalities of the privacy-community (like The New Oil and others [guess who]) and a lot of people on the privacy forums say

                              I'm on this forum (and in other privacy related groups) for some time and what I really like here is the amount of knowledge and experts present. When I brought up Exodus, most people were helping me to understand it's not reliable because badness enumeration and it giving you a false sense of security and privacy.

                              As for the other privacy personalities: Everyone has their own experiences, opinions and intentions. It's always good in my opinion to get your information from many sources and verify against your threat model and experiences. For example Apple doesn't require third party trackers to track you in an environment they control. And being a big tech company like every other, they are obligated to please their investors and deduct as much money from their customers as possible. If they deem to make more money off your data than your privacy, they literally have to do that and it's exactly what I observe from their investor calls (they want to multiply their ad revenue over the next few years, which they are best positioned for with their data hoarding eco system).

                              Also always assume that every internet personality comes with flaws and makes mistakes. Except The Hated One, this man is perfect in my book. :D

                              That reminds me: Before switching to iPhone you might want to check out this video.

                              But nonetheless, an iPhone can be the best device for you and your threat model, as long as you know what it will do for you and what is just false marketing.

                                Good video link @N1b [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ9LR8homt4], it hits on my priorities. And that's what use of GOS comes down to - priorities. Mine preclude use of an Apple ecosystem:

                                1. Priority: an open platform without restriction to apps and information. With Apple you use apps at their pleasure and they have an ongoing record of censorship. Many of the apps I use are not available in the apple/google stores. With GOS I'll have better access to information when further censorship pressures are exerted by the state.

                                2. Priority: freedom from government surveillance. I believe we have the right to be free from tracking/profiling from the state without due cause and warrant. Yet big tech companies including Google and Apple collude with the state and violate this right.

                                GOS does not magically achieve the priorities alone, but through judicious setup and use it provides a better feature/risk
                                profile and fulfills my priorities much better than other platforms. Thanks for the video.

                                N1b The more you buy into Apple, the harder it will be to leave if they do something contrary to your values or needs.

                                brn I think the main thing that hasn't been discussed here that is highly relevant is that with everything under one account/ecosystem (Apple)

                                I couldn't agree more. One single account for everything tied to my name and address, and more and more well working devices and services from Apple stuffing data into that account and my increasing dependency on one big company made me change my mind and leave Apple behind. I haven't fully achieved this goal, but I am on my way and GOS is part of this way.