Old Pixel Dumbphones

Fhggyy5767

lcalamar I have kids from the age of 32 to 12. When they're old enough it doesn't matter what I say anymore. I can only give them advice

lcalamar

Fhggyy5767 Didn't mean to offend in any way. I misinterpreted 'kids' to be pre-teens.

I still advise my adult children about privacy and security - some of it they listen to, some of it they act on and some of it is just dad being dad...

Fhggyy5767

lcalamar No worries. I didn't take it any certain way. I have one child who thinks my privacy intentions are the coolest thing ever. Bros and sisters are like "just give me a freakin phone, I'm busy dad".haha

eganonoa

Fhggyy5767 Yeah I definitely think this is the way to go. Mine are younger than yours and I like the idea of being able to progressively introduce them to the phone, starting with it being completely locked down, with just talk, text and camera (disabled browser).

You are right, I could return the amazon and go back to google. But in the end this is good. I'd not thought of using the old 3a for my kid and planned on a dumb phone. Those run $50-70. I figure the benefits of the 3A with GOS vs the not-really-dumbphones that are now left out there is worth the cost.

lcalamar

eganonoa Check out device support for Pixel 3's...
https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support

The following devices are end-of-life, no longer receive full security updates and are supported via extended support releases of GrapheneOS:

Pixel 3a XL (bonito)
Pixel 3a (sargo)
Pixel 3 XL (crosshatch)
Pixel 3 (blueline)

eganonoa

lcalamar yea I know. This is the purpose of this thread to get advice on that question. The question is, is a locked down kids-version with no browser or apps other than the stock apps minus vandium a problem with an EOL pixel.

Fhggyy5767

eganonoa We know that we're talking about EOL here. Everything is based on a threat model. Are you worried about someone hacking your kids phones and stealing pictures of flowers and the family pet for ransom? Maybe someone want to steal your children's text messages asking mum or dad for Pop Tarts? That said I would have no problem giving my children a legacy device with GOS dialed how you like it. I'm sure they're not targets and the worst thing that could happen would be someone gets your phone number by hacking their phone but come on here. lol

eganonoa

Fhggyy5767 Thanks. Yes the threat model such as it is for the kids is from my basic perspective taken care of: something locked down that greatly limits what access to the internet and random apps they have. Beyond that I don't know because I don't really know what can be gleaned from a phone that just has the default apps and even has vanadium disabled and what dangers that might entail. Sounds like, from your post, basically nothing and that the bigger risk (of excess access to social media apps or ability to access adult content online) is taken care of by the locked down phone even if EOL. That sounds good to me I think.

Fhggyy5767

eganonoa Just so you know, there's a really cool app called "Calls Blacklist". With this app you can set the phone so only numbers you approve of will be able to call or text the phone. Just hit the switch so (only people in your contacts can call through). The version I use is free. Then you'd never have to worry about someone sending a phishing text or whatnot so the kids can't click on any links texted to the device. I love the calling feature that blocks anyone besides contacts.

eganonoa

Fhggyy5767 Wow! Thank you for that, that is ideal!

Fhggyy5767

It's the one made by Vlad Lee

Andy

Other than being an interesting read I’m not in agreement with the Hulk’s privacy guide link… Quote:….

Balancing security, privacy and usability is one of the first and most difficult tasks you'll face on your privacy journey. Everything is a trade-off: The more secure something is, the more restricting or inconvenient it generally is, et cetera. Often people find that the problem with the tools they see recommended is they're just too hard to start using!

I’m no expert but perhaps no-one replied to this earlier “simple” post...

https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/777-tailstorprotonmail

As a 72 year old pensioner the use of Tails+Tor(+ProtonMail) considered as most secure by most experts, is so easy to use, fast too. So where is this trade-off referred to…? Or the hard to use…? Visit… Simple… https://tails.boum.org/

Getting back on track; my wife uses an insecure old Moto-g AOSP version 6 and has her eye on my 3a. However I intend to continue using my 3a for some time – save the planet – as my threat model must be minimal as I just use the fully updated standard bundled apps and have no need or wish to install Google Play store or any other apps at all.
I use Vanadium on my 3a to visit, say the Met Office – who needs a weather app – I don’t and get the best information. Or visit the Guardian’s web page – who needs a News app? Etc etc. I use my computers for easy typing, emails and banking and only use Tails+Tor when I even slightly anticipate a threat or need the deep dark web. My 3a GOS Vanadium is used on the go mostly. Thanks guys

BHydden

Andy So where is this trade-off

You may have simple needs that are not hindered by this level of privacy. Excellent. However, there are many websites that block access from Tor exit nodes, and many software which cannot run on Tails (or indeed any Linux platform). So for some it is much harder than for others.

Also, just because Tails might be considered the most private doesn't also mean it's the most secure. Lots of software focus heavily on one and are not so great at the other.

Andy save the planet

Here is another trade-off you haven't noticed. By choosing to "save the planet" you have decided to continue using a device past its EOL. This poses a security risk. If you say you're comfortable with that because you don't think you do anything risky, well you do you. But it's certainly still a tradeoff balance between product permanance and modern security and support.

Fhggyy5767

eganonoa Your most welcome

Andy

BHydden

BHydden So for some it is much harder than for others.

For me life on Linux is simple and has been so for years; so I have little interest in what others can't or unable to do.

BHydden Also, just because Tails might be considered the most private doesn't also mean it's the most secure. Lots of software focus heavily on one and are not so great at the other.

Thanks – AFAIK experts advise that the Tails+Tor is both secure and private and that along with the DropBox component is the one route whistle-blowers use to communicate with the media. The Guardian news media expressly advise this exact method.

https://www.theguardian.com/help/ng-interactive/2017/mar/17/contact-the-guardian-securely

https://www.theguardian.com/securedrop

BHydden continue using a device past its EOL. This poses a security risk

Would be most grateful if you could identify some specific risks.

The present methodology you advise has created the present e-waste mountain and it continues to grow killing our planet.

Fhggyy5767

Andy Would be nice if Google and other manufacturers would give lifetime security updates to battle that mountain of electronic waste. People would still buy new devices when something breaks or they feel like it but I would still be using my 3A if it that were the case. Shame on companies not supporting their devices for the lifetime of the product. Instead we are forced to upgrade for security and add good devices to this waste pile.

eganonoa

Fhggyy5767 Absolutely. So to bring this back to the topic of this thread: I believe we need to have a clearer sense of what exactly the security risks are of EOL phones and the extent to which they can continue to be used and how.

Andy

Exactly - thanks Guys.

Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg loves you...! Together we challenge the World..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Thunberg

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-53477604

Andy

Not sure if there is an EOL for computers or Dumb computers; as I am posting on two old laptops and still use an XP-Pro 2009 workstation for 3D CAD and testing Linux distros, Desktop Publishing, Photo and Video editing.
I use a 2008 HP G60 T5800 laptop currently running Trisquel-mini LXDE which Trisquel keeps updated.
I also use a 2011 Dell Latitude E6420 i7 at present running ZorinOS after EndeavourOS and Manjaro Arch Linux distros again ALL fully updated and so easy to use. Some may find the Arch distros a tad difficult as they update by the minute 24-7. Save the Planet - Our Planet..
Then there is Raspberry Pi….