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  • What is a good appstore to use on graphene considerations?

@Ixirup
I'm intentionally avoiding a long winded argument about this and trying to keep it short to help a newbie and not to delve into long technical arguments. You're confusing and over complicating this for him with your comments. and I'm not here to argue anyway. I am well aware of those articles and their arguments. I understand the app signing and app pinning concepts. Fdroid uses their own singing key, which is no more safe or vulnerable than the developer doing it or play store doing it (So I'd argue). As I've explained in my other posts (which you're welcome to read) the arguments in these articles present theoretic problems. Equally problematic theoretic vulnerabilities exist both against playstore downloads as well as other download sources (github included). In fact downloading from the official website of the developer itself has arguments for vulnerability too, so! My argument is that the potential problems pointed out do not equate to a definite and categorical claim of "UNSAFE for general use" for the Fdroid repository.

@SpeakYourMind
Look I live in reality. I'm trying to keep things real for you. And In reality, you only have a handful of practical options when it comes to downloading apps, that's it.

PlayStore is two components. The PlayStore REPOSITORY and the PlayStore APP. Apps are downloaded from the REPOSITORY using the PlayStore APP. To download from this repository a google account is required.

Aurora Store is an APP (which takes over the job of the PlayStore APP) that allows you to download from this repository without needing to have your own google account or needing to install or use the PlayStore App. Aurora uses it's own google accounts to download "for you". Aurora can't auto update apps in the background, but if you open it you can easily update your apps. Its advantage is privacy and being free from PlayStore apps being installed on you system. Its downside is that its not as "convenient" as PlayStore app, and it doesn't "pin" the app signature when it installs a new app. The account sharing aspect of Aurora is generally not a problem at this time except in very rare cases (mostly some financial apps wanting to heavily tie to your identity). There isn't any security risk in this that we know of. But if the particular app heavily relies on the google account as the method to verify you and the app's instance, then this could become a security problem. This is generally not the case for most PlayStore apps including most of the banking apps.

Another way to download apps from the PlayStore repository is through websites such as APKmirror and APKpure. They download the apps with their own google accounts and provide a copy of that download on their website for people to download. This is a useful source in some cases (as no app or account is necessary and the full PlayStore repository is available to you) but is not ideal because updating the apps is a total pain and fully manual, which is not realistic. Aurora is a much more practical solution. Also going through an extra website to download things adds an extra layer of potential compromise. However this extra layer of vulnerability is the same whether you go through APKmirror, Aurora Store, or Fdroid. The issue of "trust" in those sources and the security of their servers becomes relevant. To avoid this potential risk its recommended to download from "direct source" like github to avoid this "theoretic" extra attack surface, which then puts trust only the developer's security and github's. Is this much safer? How much? (you decide.)

Your next option is Fdroid. Fdroid also is both a REPOSITORY and an APP. Droid-ify, NeoStore, and Aurora Droid are alternatives to the Fdroid APP and use the same REPOSITORY. Fdroid apps can be downloaded directly from its website without need of any app, however updates become a problem. Fdroid IS NOT an alternative and replacement to PlayStore. Their apps are mostly different. It is however complementary. Some apps exist on both, and some important apps are exclusive to each with no other way to get them (ex: Brave is only on PS, and OsmAnd+ -Full Free- only on Fdroid).
As mentioned before Fdroid app has poor security so use one of the alternatives. NeoStore allows automatic background updates which Droid-ify does not, however NeoStore crashed 5 times in the first hour that I used it and wasn't as polished and clean as Droidify in my use. So I uninstalled and have happily stuck to Droidify since. Have not used Aurora Droid.

Accrescent Is another app and repository, however its not ready, and since I haven't used it can't comment much more.

Your last option is direct download from source (Official website or Github/Gitlab). This often leaves you with the problem of updating. Obtanium then comes in use here to consolidate and solve the update problem of direct downloads from source. Some argue that Obtanium increases the attack surface. Theoretically true, but.. how much? Realistically your choice is between extreme pain of manually handling 20 apps. Or just use Obtanium. You decide.

Tips:

  • Don't use github's search to find apps. Its terrible. Use a search engine with the "right" words in your search. To be sure you have got the right website you need to confirm it from other web sources as similar a lot of similar entries exist that you should NOT trust.
  • Fdroid website shows official links to any app's official website and source code. A great way to verify and find the proper "source".
  • There are other places to get APKs from, don't use them. They are dangerous.
  • Read the posts I referenced for you.
  • read the entire Documentation on GOS website.
  • Don't fret. This is too much info. You can't know it all right now. Start with the good advice given here. Expand later.
  • Watch SideOfBurritos
  • Find and watch other android security helpers on youtube. You'll learn from them even if some info is incomplete or not great.
  • The same app from different download sources might have different signing keys. First time you install an app the "key" gets "pinned". Then you can only update from the same source and not a different one. So decide which source you install the app from as it will affect your future updates. Fdroid has its own key. PlayStore and developer site might have same key, or might not.
    • [deleted]

    • Edited

    User2288 it doesn't "pin" the app signature when it installs a new app.

    That's not true. Signature matching is enforced by PackageManagerService of AOSP, meaning for new updates to be installed, the checksum has to be the same as was on First Install.

    • [deleted]

    User2288 Fdroid also is both a REPOSITORY and an APP.

    F-Droid also allows developers to make their own repositories, which could be helpful for Game developers since they won't have to abide by an app store's arbitrary rules.

    • [deleted]

    • Edited

    User2288 I would suggest instead of digging around so much, You can just use the following:

    1. Google Play store
    2. APK from Developer's website
    3. APK Developer's F-Droid repo in a modern F-Droid client (like Neo Store)
    4. APK from Developer's official github/gitlab repo's releases

    For downloading old versions of apps, APKmirror can be used only after verifying checksums, to distrust APKmirror

      My Setup.
      Both supports automatic app updates, every time i check the app store all of my apps are up to date.

      1.Google Play store - Almost everything is installed from here including most of the opensource apps.
      2.Neo Store - If the app is not available in Playstore, apps are mostly from IzzyOnDroid F-Droid Repository or Official F-Droid Repository.

        • [deleted]

        [deleted] I forgot to include Accrescent, you can use It too; but It only has a few apps.

        W1zardK1ng

        Are there differences between apps downloaded from playstore vs neostore in terms of tracking or including more google reliance?

          I didn't read the entire thread because there are too many messages, but if we do a dumb tier list of most secure ways to retrieve an app, here we go :

          • Accrescent
          • Play Store
          • Obtainium

          That said, F-Droid is awesome to search for FOSS apps, you can go f-droid website and search apps from there, then you should either download from accrescent first, play store or obtainium.

            samsepi0l Obtainium checks the sources? The developers sign their apk expressly for obtainium? That's not a secure application at all.

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              Ixirup The developers sign their apk expressly for obtainium?

              No.

              Ixirup Obtainium checks the sources?

              Obtanium does not check the 'source code', It only checks for APKs via many sources:

              Currently supported App sources:

              GitHub
              GitLab
              Codeberg
              F-Droid
              IzzyOnDroid
              Mullvad
              Signal
              SourceForge
              SourceHut
              APKMirror (Track-Only)
              APKPure
              Third Party F-Droid Repos
              Jenkins Jobs
              Steam
              Telegram App
              VLC
              Neutron Code
              "HTML" (Fallback)
              Any other URL that returns an HTML page with links to APK files (if multiple, the last file alphabetically is picked)

              For more info, Read https://github.com/ImranR98/Obtainium/blob/main/README.md

              Ixirup Obtainium is just a fancy and easier way for installing .apk manually.
              So instead of going on github and download apk then install it, then using Feeder to track new version of your downloaded app , you can use Obtainium to do that for you, you just giving him the github url or whatever source you have, and Obtainium will fetch and download apk for you, then it will also track new version and will notify you so you can update it.

                samsepi0l If you use obtainium for the first installation without checking the authenticity of the APK, this is a major security issue.

                  88dotorg
                  Thank you i stumbled across the same video the same evening and must say: really excellent video. Really like how he explains things!

                  User2288

                  Man thank you for that extensive write up!! So much things i think the same like it is important that it is not to complicate to update Apps from a source. That it is important to get the download right in the beginning, since the keys might differ. That the search of Github is broken, how i found out. That the easy fix is to use DuckDuckgo as Some1 pointed out too.
                  Your comments on APKmirror and APKpure answered thinks i wondered about too..

                  So all in all thank you. I willd do more studying i already stumbled on SideOfBurritos, great explanatioins....
                  So really thanks for all of this!

                  And yes for me it is important to find reliable sources to download AND make Updates not to complicated. That is exactly what my thoughts are about. So indeed Github/lab + Obtainium is one idea i like.

                  you need to confirm it from other web sources as similar a lot of similar entries exist that you should NOT trust.
                  Fdroid website shows official links to any app's official website and source code. A great way to verify and find the proper "source".

                  I can't find the links on the F-droid Website for the website of the Neo store project. Am i overlooking something? Or is it for Neo store not there...
                  Do you use any other site recommendation for verifications purposes? besides F-droid I would love to hear, still big topic for me to verify downloads...

                  Greetings!

                    Ixirup
                    For the first 2 Articles: i don't speak french and i don't want to autotranslate...
                    The last one i did read, thanks for this. That lead to my decision to not use Fdroid as primary source of downloads....

                    • [deleted]

                    SpeakYourMind Do you use any other site recommendation for verifications purposes? besides F-droid

                    What do you mean by verification purposes?