Pixel 11 doesn't meet the GrapheneOS security standards and may be skipped

Novaliss

FunkTastic still happily use Pixel 6a.

Same here. But I'm very much aware of the P6a lacking one of the big GrapheneOS security developments, and while P6a have been the most impressive device I've ever used, it soon will have to go.😕

FunkTastic

erikfritzek Why Google needs to keep a hardware/software feature if it will only be in use by 3rd party projects (GOS)

Because GOS requirements are the industry standarts?

As for upcoming Motorola devices, there are many uncertainties. Will the bootloader be unlockable and on which terms? Current price of Signature model is 800+ EUR which is twice as Pixel 10a I recently bought.

At some point I'll be faced with the choice of giving up GOS (again) and continue down the iPhone road.

fixer

Google Support confirms hardware MTE in Tensor G6, currently disabled in public software

I contacted Google Support regarding ARM Memory Tagging Extension (MTE) on the Pixel 11 Pro.

I specifically asked whether the Tensor G6 physically implements MTE and whether it is currently disabled in software.

Me:
Can you confirm that the Pixel 11 Pro has a hardware implementation of ARM Memory Tagging Extension (MTE) in the Tensor G6, and that the functionality is currently only disabled or unavailable in the current software?

Google Support:
“I can confirm that the Tensor G6 chip in the Pixel 11 Pro contains hardware support for MTE, although its availability depends on the current software configuration.”

I then asked whether Google plans to activate MTE through a software/firmware update and specifically clarified that I meant making ARM MTE available to the OS at the CPU/kernel level, rather than simply adding a Developer Options setting.

Google Support:
“For testing or debugging, the MTE function can be enabled globally under Settings > System > Developer options > Memory Tagging Extension, which will restart the device in MTE mode.”

I pointed out that this option is not present on my Pixel 11 Pro and that:

adb shell grep mte /proc/cpuinfo

does not show MTE.

I then asked whether MTE is currently disabled by the Pixel 11 Pro software/firmware rather than being physically absent from the hardware.

Google Support initially recommended submitting feedback through the device so that engineers could potentially address the issue with an OTA update.

I asked again for a direct confirmation that MTE is physically present and only disabled in software.

Google Support:
“Yes, the hardware capability is physically present in the Tensor G6, however it is currently not active in the public version of the software.”

I then asked whether an update will unlock/enable the feature.

Google Support:
“I am currently unable to provide a specific timeframe for unlocking MTE, however submitting feedback helps our team determine priorities for this feature.”

They also stated that Pixel updates are released almost monthly.

Summary

According to Google Support:

Tensor G6 physically contains hardware support for ARM MTE.
MTE is currently not active in the public Pixel 11 Pro software.
The current software configuration is therefore preventing MTE from being available.
Google Support could not confirm when MTE will be enabled.
They suggested submitting feedback to Google regarding enabling the feature.

I am posting this because the current GrapheneOS discussion indicates that the Pixel 11 may lack MTE and may potentially be skipped. I thought this direct statement from Google Support regarding the Tensor G6 hardware implementation might be relevant to the discussion.

I have screenshots of the complete conversation with Google Support if needed.

gosu

I get why a lot of people are voting to skip the Pixel 11.
But here’s my personal situation:
With the Pixel 11, I finally have reception again in places where I had problems up until the Pixel 10. Switching back would be a massive personal downgrade in that regard. I was so happy to see the Pixel 11 working there. The new Motorola devices are all too big for me. The 6.3" is already the absolute maximum.

Eirikr70

fixer Let's pray!

andrej567

Eirikr70 and if pixel 12 is the same? pray more?

Gherkin

Please don’t give up on the Pixel 11 series yet. 🙏

Here in Australia, Optus currently has $1,000 off the Pixel 11 Pro XL 512GB, while the Pixel 10 Pro XL 512GB is still sitting at essentially its full price.

For people like me, there really isn’t a realistic option to spend another ~$1,000 on a last-generation phone just to get established GrapheneOS support. I’ve already ordered the 11 Pro XL because the price difference is simply too significant.

Good luck, GrapheneOS. 🙏 I really hope you can make it work.

erikfritzek

FunkTastic Because GOS requirements are the industry standarts?

Not really. They're requirements just to components of the bigger topic "security". For GOS it's crucial, for Google - not necessarily.
If Google, with all it's presence in modern tech, has found a proactive way to guarantee security (not worse to what it was before), like to eliminate threats at the time of publishing to Play Store, or using Google Safe Browsing, then that component falls out of the scope of required tech.

Eirikr70

andrej567 I mainly pray for the 11a. But yeah, praying does no harm does it ?

DeletedUser1111

erikfritzek Not really. They're requirements just to components of the bigger topic "security". For GOS it's crucial, for Google - not necessarily.

This:

GrapheneOS doesn't require any unusual security features. It only requires industry standard security features which are widely acknowledged as being important.

0070

GrapheneOS in my opinion you should skip the Pixel 11 focus on Motorola and maybe older Pixel devices like the 9 and 10 series...

Hat

erikfritzek
For those who want the latest generation of Pixel, it’s best to be honest: This eleventh-generation model represents a step back in terms of security compared to several previous models.

This strategic mistake by Google will boost consumer interest in the Motorola/Qualcomm alternative ahead of the launch of the first phone.

There should be a gap of several months between the release of the Motorola resulting from the partnership with GrapheneOS and the Pixel 12.
The high price of the high-end Motorola is less of a weak point given Google’s price increase.

An official reaction from Google would, of course, clarify the situation.

erikfritzek

DeletedUser1111 You've referred to a GOS-centric statement, so no surprise. It's giants who set those standards, so if now apple/google/samsung etc shift those towards something else, you have no choice than to follow.
Sitting on top of Pixels gave enormous TAM to GOS with a very LOW cost for those interested to jump-in.
Take it, and you're left with a decay.

AI claims Google sells 10/12/15 million units in 2023/24/25 respectively.
Motorola's $1K devices are 2/3/4 respectively (reliability of M's sales is questionable).

So yeah, realistically I would support @Eirikr70 in prays for pixel 11 and onwards to intro MTE with an update . Otherwise, GOS will face totally different type of a struggle.

erikfritzek

Hat This strategic mistake by Google will boost consumer interest in the Motorola/Qualcomm alternative ahead of the launch of the first phone.

It's so delusional of a statement. You should have stated GOS users will shift, which is what, a negligible fraction of Pixels users?

DeletedUser1111

Guys, It's not the end of the world if Pixel 11 series may be skipped.

It's not a simple and a fast work to do to support to support it.
If the professionals give us genuine reasons to why it may be skipped, why they recommend against it, maybe we should listen, research and think before telling that we need P11 support.

We should be grateful that GrapheneOS is free and open-source and they care about its users.

Maybe Pixel 12 will include MTE support again.

On the other side, they can now focus more on the upcoming Motorola devices and other things.

Upcoming Motorola's will have much better performance and likely a competitive price.

erikfritzek

Hat The high price of the high-end Motorola is less of a weak point given Google’s price increase

Orly? I can buy like-new pixel 8a for a $100-150 occasionaly. When is it the earliest MotoGOS will be available on used market for x5 of pixel price ($700)? In 3-4 years? You're cutting off a major share of GOS users. They will simply jump Apple.

andrej567

Eirikr70
I am joining you... I planned for the 11a too
Flagship moto will be probably quite expensive.

Tandara

For some strange reason, I suspect that most (if not all) rooting for Pixel 11 support here are the ones who had already bought the device before GOS port. MTE is a hard requirement set by the project awhile ago and is what became the 'identity' of the OS besides privacy.

For anyone claiming there are "still other features besides MTE worth to support P11," please name a single important feature besides MTE and bootloader lock that cannot be archived on any other phone via adb/customization.

Post-Quantum encryption will be useful in 6 - 10 years from now when quantum computers will become a thing and used for something more than research. M2 has still not being cracked and there is no proof Google didn't do something to M3 after all this GOS headlines.

andrej567

Tandara agree but the decision about pixel 11 will be done by the graphene team only at the end.
so we can chat here to have good time but I dont think it has more impact

Titan_M2

fixer Google Support confirms hardware MTE in Tensor G6, currently disabled in public software

I don't think Google Support is aware...

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