Pixel 11 doesn't meet the GrapheneOS security standards and may be skipped

GrapheneOS

Syberkonda It's still within the 15 day no justification required return window if you bought it from Google.

If the Titan M3 does greatly improve security, it will mainly benefit security against brute force attacks in Before First Unlock State. The devices will be much weaker to exploitation in After First Unlock state without MTE. It does also benefit the security of hardware keystore keys but those aren't really super widely used as much as it would be nice if they were. It also simply isn't one of the most important security features. We'd much rather lose the StrongBox hardware keystore than losing MTE or even PAC. We care a lot more about protecting the OS against being exploited than better protection for a subset of keys after it does get exploited. It's only the keys apps actually put there which are better protected. Most apps using the hardware keystore APIs still aren't opting into using the StrongBox keystore to use the secure element and a lot of apps don't bother using these APIs.

Carrousel7956

GrapheneOS If the Titan M3 does greatly improve security, it will mainly benefit security against brute force attacks in Before First Unlock State.

There are problems with the M2 in BFU?

wuseman

de0u Perhaps next week some press organs will contact Google and perhaps Google will make a statement.

I hope you are right, but I doubt Google will give any form of answer besides marketing fluff nonsense about "plans changing" or "our devices are the most secure on the market already".

wuseman

Carrousel7956
The M2 is not quantum secure:
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/35298-titan-m3-features

i123

alonely0 So, you would like to give GOS users fake sense of security ? NO!

i123

wuseman WERE most secure, with this BS they will feel blowback big time

andrej567

If "they" switched to the cheaper side, then pixel 12 can be the same

FunkTastic

i123 Still way more secure than the majority of other Android smartphones and definitely not worse than Pixels up to 7.

Hat

In the current circumstances, the best course of action is to stop work on the eleventh iteration of the Pixel. If Google does not rectify the situation quickly, returning the devices will prevent financial loss, although disappointment due to the absence of the MTE will still be inevitable.

This situation should be viewed as an opportunity:
This frees up some of the team's developers to focus on other projects for months. For instance, they could work on Motorola smartphones, improvements to the operating system and apps, or another type of device.

i123

FunkTastic no MTE = open doors for buffer overflows, jumping instructions, remote/local escalation privileges = forensic tools and exploits huge welcome in AFU which is 98% state of the phones. Its a big NO!

FunkTastic

i123 This way Pixel 6a, 7a and 7 are insecure, right?

Novaliss

FunkTastic Pixel 6a, 7a and 7 are insecure

No, still secure but less secure than P8-P10a.

erikfritzek

Syberkonda or Google has something in mind re security that is not known to GOS team or others.

FunkTastic

Novaliss I would gladly use GOS on Pixel 11 without MTE. I'd be ok with that.

i123

FunkTastic Obsolete and insecure when compared to pixel 8-10 YES. Do you understand the concept of MTE at all and what it brings to the table ?

Novaliss

FunkTastic gladly use GOS on Pixel 11 without MTE. I'd be ok

While I would get a used P8a, or P9a and be better off regarding security..🤔
The memory tagging isn't for fun.

FunkTastic

Novaliss I'm not into modern used phones. The battery wear, the case wear, the price is not far lower compared to the new ones.

i123 I still happily use Pixel 6a.

erikfritzek

i123 You need to put everything into context. Unless they're planning to introduce it via an update, maybe they're substituting it's role in some other way.

Knowing Google is taking steps that makes it harder to sideload applications, maybe they're planning to shift verification to an earlier step - Google Play Store.

Why Google needs to keep a hardware/software feature if it will only be in use by 3rd party projects (GOS) or in circumstances that are against new Google approach (reduce apps sideload)?

de0u

FunkTastic I would gladly use GOS on Pixel 11 without MTE. I'd be ok with that.

How about maintaining it for 50,000 other users for 7 years? For somebody to use it, it must be maintained, which is time that could be used to maintain a different device which might be more secure... or to work on TTS for another language...

Maybe somebody will step forward to port and maintain less-than-GrapheneOS on the 11 devices if the GrapheneOS team decides against it.

erikfritzek

Hat This situation should be viewed as an opportunity:
This frees up some of the team's developers to focus on other projects for months. For instance, they could work on Motorola smartphones, improvements to the operating system and apps, or another type of device.

It is indeed an opportunity of it's kind, but that's also a great risk for the continuity of growth (it's only GOS team that knows dynamic of installations to newly released phones, vs old/used ones). There is no Motorola yet. No dates. If there is no device to install to during a year, people, for the X time, may come to a conclusion it's better to stick to big vendors, like Apple.

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