Private and secure usage of smart watch / fitnesstracker

mar2112

After using Garmin bike computers I would never recommend their products. They do a poor job of regression testing their firmware and they, either can't or won't, fix bugs they introduce into subsequent releases. I rate their firmware as beta versions at best.

Anon6095

LeslieFH Anon6095

Garmin Pay doesn't require an Internet connection, just as an NFC-enabled credit card doesn't require an Internet connection. (It is just a cryptographical token representing a payment card which is transmitted via NFC)

Hmm ok, yes make sense because the terminal can handle the network connection to the bank.

slb Anon6095 Just the initial pairing and you'll be good :)

So the companion app needs a network connection only one time.
Is the initial pairing required on watch or app level?
I mean can I install the app in a burner/single-app profile to set the watch up and do the initial firmware update, then delete the profile and install the app without network connection in owners profile personal space but without network permission?

slb

Anon6095 nah you'll need to pair with network and then disable it if you want notification sync etc.
If all the info you need is only on the watch itself, and perhaps you want to add your credit card for tap payments, you could do your method but the watch won't be properly paired with your phone anymore. It'll still track but you'll have to pull out the data in other ways, perhaps gadget bridge? I never tested that.

Anon6095

slb nah you'll need to pair with network and then disable it if you want notification sync etc.
If all the info you need is only on the watch itself, and perhaps you want to add your credit card for tap payments, you could do your method but the watch won't be properly paired with your phone anymore. It'll still track but you'll have to pull out the data in other ways, perhaps gadget bridge? I never tested that.

I need to think about it, cause I heard that gadget bridge didn't pull out the data correctly:

MisterX . The sleeping time was also different in the gadget bridge app than on my watch itself

TranceSeven

@slb @Sylens can you extract GPX traces from the watch via Gadgetbridge? I'd like to be able to leave the phone at home when going for a run but still want tracking to put into something like OpenTracks.

Sylens

TranceSeven Yes, that works trivially. Just open the activities in Gadgetbridge, and either share it from the overview of all activities by longpressing it and picking share, or continue and open an activity, which includes a map btw (well, a path, but if you choose to download some maps for offline use, it gets overlayed on that), and then share from there.

I use the tracking and overviews provided in GadgetBridge, but yeah, sharing it to other apps works well. I tried it with CoMaps, for instance.

groove_untie145

I want to buy a smart watch / hybrid smart watch or a fitness tracker to track some health statistics, especially my sleep.Because I am very privacy conscious I only want to use either use gadget bridge or the native app but without network permission, besides maybe an initial firmware update.

To be completely honest being privacy conscious & getting a device that tracks your sleep whereabouts, health information and other vital details about who you are, where you go and what you do.. Do not go hand in hand.

I would strongly suggest you reconsider this as an option and just opt for the NFC enabled physical debit or credit card you already have in your wallet. You can pay using that the same way you would with your watch.

LeslieFH

groove_untie145 To be completely honest being privacy conscious & getting a device that tracks your sleep whereabouts, health information and other vital details about who you are, where you go and what you do.. Do not go hand in hand.

"Privacy" doesn't mean I don't get to collect any information about myself, it means others don't get to collect any information about myself.

Anon6095

groove_untie145 To be completely honest being privacy conscious & getting a device that tracks your sleep whereabouts, health information and other vital details about who you are, where you go and what you do.. Do not go hand in hand.

I would strongly suggest you reconsider this as an option and just opt for the NFC enabled physical debit or credit card you already have in your wallet. You can pay using that the same way you would with your watch.

When the data can't get out, where is the problem?
And the main reason I want the watch is not to replace debit/credit cards, but to do health tracking

02673853

groove_untie145 To be completely honest being privacy conscious & getting a device that tracks your sleep whereabouts, health information and other vital details about who you are, where you go and what you do.. Do not go hand in hand.

I would strongly suggest you reconsider this as an option and just opt for the NFC enabled physical debit or credit card you already have in your wallet. You can pay using that the same way you would with your watch.

Being privacy conscious and using a debit or credit card also doesn't go hand in hand.

groove_untie145

LeslieFH You will allow others to collect data about you if you use a smart watch, objectively, categorically, not up for debate

de0u

groove_untie145 You will allow others to collect data about you if you use a smart watch, objectively, categorically, not up for debate.

Is it possible to explain how a PineTime watch, connected to GadgetBridge without network access, would allow "others" to collect data? Which "others"?

LeslieFH

groove_untie145 I'm using a fitness tracker with an app (Notify & Fitness) with no Internet access permission, everything is collected and stored locally. Objectively, no "others" are collecting data about me, this is a fact.

groove_untie145

de0u Was that what we were originally referring to? This is not what most people mean when they say "smart watch." It's an edge case. Great suggestion!

Anon6095

Sylens TranceSeven Yes, that works trivially. Just open the activities in Gadgetbridge, and either share it from the overview of all activities by longpressing it and picking share, or continue and open an activity, which includes a map btw (well, a path, but if you choose to download some maps for offline use, it gets overlayed on that), and then share from there.

I use the tracking and overviews provided in GadgetBridge, but yeah, sharing it to other apps works well. I tried it with CoMaps, for instanc

What file formats are in use for this?

Anon6095

groove_untie145 de0u Was that what we were originally referring to? This is not what most people mean when they say "smart watch." It's an edge case. Great suggestion!

groove_untie145 LeslieFH

Okay you're using an edge case. That's like saying cars don't require gas because electric vehicles exist. When people say 'smart watch,' they mean the products 99% of users actually buy and use not obscure open-source hardware with deliberately crippled connectivity. The fact that you need to specify exotic edge cases actually proves my point about the category.

This entire thread is resolving about this edge case from the beginning:

Anon6095 I only want to use either use gadget bridge or the native app but without network permission, besides maybe an initial firmware update.

groove_untie145

LeslieFH

Okay you're using an edge case. That's like saying cars don't require gas because electric vehicles exist. When people say 'smart watch,' they mean the products 99% of users actually buy and use not obscure open-source hardware with deliberately crippled connectivity. The fact that you need to specify exotic edge cases actually proves my point about the category.

mmmm

groove_untie145 to be fair you said it was 'categorically not up for debate'. The other posters simply proved that it was in fact, up for debate. GrapheneOS itself is pretty edge case in the grand scheme of things. Why wouldn't a GrapheneOS user go for a similar edge case in their smart watch choices?

02673853

groove_untie145 obscure open-source hardware

Sound like an oxymoron

groove_untie145 deliberately crippled connectivity.

What do you mean by that?

mmmm

02673853 rubbish. Its entirely threat model dependent

groove_untie145

02673853 How do you get paid from your job? Monero? Cash? I don't really understand how you expect to live in the real world without a debit or a credit card. Who's to say it's not a prepaid one bought with a privacy preserving crypto method

02673853

mmmm Its maybe possible to wear a smartwatch without it exfiltrating personal data, but its per design not possible to use a debit or credit card without sharing data with at least the bank and depending on the bank also the store

mmmm

02673853 and by that logic one should not use a bank at all. Like I said, it's threat model dependant. I'm not sure many peoples threat model excludes the use of payment cards, but certainly not many exclude the use of a bank.

02673853

groove_untie145 How do you get paid from your job? Monero? Cash? I don't really understand how you expect to live in the real world without a debit or a credit card

That you receive your loan over the bank doesn't mean you need to spend it over the bank.

groove_untie145 Who's to say it's not a prepaid one bought with a privacy preserving crypto method

Not possible without KYC in msot places of the world.
At least every crypto prepaid card I know requires KYC

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