Ethical and actual privacy considerations of using Google Play for select apps?

freedomfromeviltech

I spent the past days reading up about microg and getting it setup with all the ticks, including spoofing.

Having read the initial description about being open source I thought this meant total freedom from big G while still being able to run apps that require it. As I studied more I found out this is not the case at all and even with microg it will be communicating with the big man. It just seems like it is a 'lesser evil' case.

Now ideally I would not use it at all however there is some dumb/lazy company that does not offer its full services online and only offers all the features via the app, probably just because it was easier for them, which, you guessed it, requires Google Play Services.

I am not talking about a pure software thing, but a company that offers real life services but only allows you to book through the app for the specific service I want.

I tested on a vanilla emulator with G play installed by default and the app works fine but on the device with microg it just crashes and says 'unfortunately the app has stopped' or whatever and keeps on crashing which indicates it is a problem with microg itself it doesn't like.

Now you can say 'just take your business elsewhere' and use a different company that doesn't rely on this app but of course I would if I could. It is some service that is not well implemented in my country yet and so no other viable option that I found at the moment except use it and follow their rules.

So either use it or go without.

It would really help my life at the moment if I could make it work so I am wondering if I should 'bend the knee' and use Google Play in the least intrusive way to get it to work.

So yes ethically I am not keeping my pristine values of never ever going near G ever again, which I have done for many years (at least to my knowledge, or, I have wondered, is this an illusion if you are browsing websites daily which will also have G code in them so maybe a false assumption after all?) but can this exception be made if it will currently add great value to my life at this point at least until more competition comes to the market to give me alternatives?

What exactly am I 'giving up' if I use normal G play just to make it work and how to mitigate that intrusion as much as I can?

The simple solution for me in the past has been to not play the game at all and stay far away by ridding myself of everything G related. Now though I don't see a way around this to have this added value to my life so I wonder if I can make a tactical advance into enemy territory without suffering too much as a consequence.

DeletedUser499

freedomfromeviltech Now ideally I would not use it at all however there is some dumb/lazy company that does not offer its full services online and only offers all the features via the app, probably just because it was easier for them, which, you guessed it, requires Google Play Services.

Then don't use it, find an alternative, or learn to live without it. I use one extra app on my phone anything else is on a laptop and can wait until I get home. I de-g@@gled real easily..

dc32f0cfe84def651e0e

freedomfromeviltech a company that offers real life services but only allows you to book through the app for the specific service I want.

Contact them and let them know they would lose a client with such attitude.

freedomfromeviltech

Also, from briefly reading the forum, it seems sandboxed Google Play is the recommended way here anyway if you are going to interact with it while also enjoying greater compatibility and probably avoiding the issues above? I do question what the point of microg is at all when it contacts Google servers and uses proprietary code anyway.

schweizer

How do you determine it requires google? If you use it on a profile without micro G and Google, how does it behave?

If it still does not work put it in a separate profile with google play installed. This avoids access to the other apps either by the app itself or by google. Disable background usage for that profile.

freedomfromeviltech

schweizer Because that is the first things I tried. Bare AOSP with no Google Play and no microG and it would crash stating it requires G play to work. I then install microg and no longer get the error but still crashes!

DeletedUser495

dc32f0cfe84def651e0e most of them will not care, you are just one out of many, a collateral damage. You should do what suits you, not them.

freedomfromeviltech

dc32f0cfe84def651e0e lol naive comment. Most will never even read such a message! The best you can expect is some automated response.

GrouchyGrape

freedomfromeviltech first, let's please not confuse microg with sandboxed Google Play Services/Store. They are not the same thing.

To fix your issue, uninstall the app that's crashing, make sure Google Play Services is installed from the GrapheneOS App Store, then reinstall your app. This resolves most issues with GPS requirements.

Murcielago

freedomfromeviltech

Most will never even read such a message! The best you can expect is some automated response.

Maybe, maybe not. I would argue that trying it doesn't take much effort, and if enough feedback is given, change is possible.

freedomfromeviltech

GrouchyGrape I have not confused either.

There are 2 issues here. 1 whether said app works or not, and 2 should you use it if it does work given that it gives up info to google and also ethically you are supporting none free software?

For the first, is it any better or worse in terms of what info you give up using google play sandboxed vs. microg? and for second I pose as a philosophical question, whether it is ok to compromise your values in exceptional cases for the sake of convenience or if that is tantamount to total failure and 'selling out'. :)

GrouchyGrape

freedomfromeviltech I have not confused either.

Forgive me, I misread your post. Sounded like you were mistaking the two.

I can't think of a single reason why one would install microg on your GOS device vs using sandboxed GPS provided by the App Store. There may be a reason, but that doesn't make any sense to me.

To answer your philosophical question, that's entirely up to you and what matters most. The fact you're on this forum at all usually indicates you care to some extent about freedom, privacy, and security. How far are you willing to take it?

In my opinion, if you think it's a "compromise [of] your values", then you probably shouldn't be using a Pixel to begin with. But that's probably taking it too far for most people.

Just don't be like the people out protesting oil mining while happily wearing and using products that only come from that process. If your going to take a stance on something, more power to you, just know exactly what your standing for and be prepared to defend it.