Browser notifications without google play services

flying_turtle

After some small research following this discussion it seems that basically every browser uses google play services for it's notifications.

I would really like to use browser notifications on my main degoogled profile. Does anybody by chance know of maybe any browser implementation or a fork of a browser that has notifications working without google?

de0u

flying_turtle I would really like to use browser notifications on my main degoogled profile. Does anybody by chance know of maybe any browser implementation or a fork of a browser that has notifications working without google?

If a web site is written to deliver notifications via FCM, then the only way to receive those notifications is from FCM, though I suspect some of those sites also offer notifications via Apple's service ("Web Push").

In theory a web site could offer notifications via UnifiedPush, but I suspect that is rare.

strife-john-frozen

de0u this is not how web push works.
The web push protocol is implemented independent of the server that delivers the push notification to the device.
Here's a schema of how it works:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8030#section-2
If I understand the push service side of this correctly, the GrapheneOS devs could theoretically host a push service for Vanadium that can deliver push messages via unified push

de0u

strife-john-frozen The web push protocol is implemented independent of the server that delivers the push notification to the device.
Here's a schema of how it works:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8030#section-2

That looks encouraging. But if it's accurate (in the sense that all web servers support any notification server selected by any client), why does MollySocket exist? Shouldn't Signal's servers be willing to do UnifiedPush instead of a MollySocket daemon needing to do it?

strife-john-frozen

de0u Signal is a native android app, not a website or web app.
Therefore it cannot use the web push protocol as it doesn't run inside a web browser that can take care of push notifications. As most android apps do, Signal uses firebase cloud messaging (fcm) to register for push registrations and deliver them. When play services and therefore fcm isn't available, Signal uses a persistent websocket (afaik) connection to a Signal server as a fallback to be able to deliver notifications.
Edit: they could theoretically implement web push notifications on the server side. But I don't think that would make much sense since Signal isn't supposed to run in a web browser and for native applications unified push exists (which they afaik don't support either).

de0u

strife-john-frozen Signal is a native android app, not a website or web app.
Therefore it cannot use the web push protocol as it doesn't run inside a web browser that can take care of push notifications.

I don't think this is how Signal works.

My understanding is that Signal endpoint apps run on Android and iOS and (to some extent) in desktop browsers, but that Signal messages all go through Signal's message servers (source). Because Signal's message servers know when any given Signal user receives a new message, Signal's message servers send notifications to Signal app endpoints via FCM (also presumably via Apple's notification servers for iOS devices). I think Signal calls are peer-to-peer, but for a Signal app endpoint to know that a call is incoming requires a notification. Is that not accurate?

strife-john-frozen As most android apps do, Signal uses firebase cloud messaging (fcm) to register for push registrations and deliver them.

Yes. The question is who generates the actual notifications. I believe they come from Signal's message servers.

The claim above is that "The web push protocol is implemented independent of the server that delivers the push notification to the device". If that is true, then when Signal's message servers want to send a notification to a specific Signal app endpoint, Signal's message servers should be able to use FCM or Apple's push service or UnifiedPush without any special support. If Signal's message servers can automatically send push notifications via UnifiedPush, why does the MollySocket program exist to receive notifications from Signal's message and translate them into UnifiedPush notifications?

strife-john-frozen

de0u your understanding of how Signal push notifications work is correct.
But Signal servers don't use the web push protocol as the clients are not web apps or websites. Unlike websites and web apps, Signal servers implement FCM and the iOS equivalent directly to deliver push notifications to devices.
Because Signal servers don't implement the web push protocol, alternative clients cannot use alternative push servers directly.

de0u

strife-john-frozen If I am following, does that mean that the answer to the original post is something like "Chrome-derived browsers all implement Web Push via FCM, but Firefox-derived browsers implement Web Push via push.services.mozilla.com"?

strife-john-frozen

de0u I am not sure if each Chrome derived browser has their own push servers or not, but yes, from the web application servers perspective, Firefox has its own push server.
But afaik what the Firefox push server then does is deliver the push notification via FCM to the Firefox application. But theoretically, it could also use unified push. That's completely up to the browser and is not something the website or web app handles.
Edit: at least that's how I think it works when the client is Firefox android. I am not sure how they deliver push on desktops, probably through a persistent connection with a Firefox push server.

flying_turtle

de0u
The way i understood firefox-derived browsers also rely on FCM to send notifications on android. I found info about it on mozilla's page. A few forks of firefox like fennec or ironfox that i tried at least fail to deliver notifications, so i assume they use FCM as well, although i did not explicitly checked that

flying_turtle

Actually i just found mention of both fennec and ironfox on unified push apps page. So maybe there is a way to do it. I'll look into it a bit later