Will Google at some point prevent further development of GrapheneOS?

128bitpotato

A question that has been on my mind lately concerns the future of GrapheneOS. Today the project is possible thanks to AOSP being open-source and Google pixel having the ability to run a custom OS. As Googles main revenue is data mining and advertising, GrapheneOS imposes a direct threat to their whole business model. At the moment GOS has a minimal user base compared to stock Android. But since it's growing fast and there is a strive to expand (not in an economic way ofc), could there be a risk that Google will try to interfere or stop it?

For example, could Google decide to lock their phones to prevent custom OS being installed? What would happen then? Or could they make future Android releases proprietary, ditching the open-source project? We've seen how Google tries to limit ad-blocking in the Chromium browser with MV3. Could something similar happen to GOSP, making it harder to maintain privacy?

I'd love to hear about your thoughts on this. Is this really a concern? How does the team view the future of the project and these concerns?

(My knowledge is limited, so I'll be glad to have any misinformation corrected)

lordiont

128bitpotato I'd love to hear about your thoughts on this. Is this really a concern? How does the team view the future of the project and these concerns?

I agree with OP and I, too, would appreciate the GOS Team chiming in on this, as this very concern has also been on my mind lately. Given that Linux phones are quite unusable, at this point in time, there seems to be no other alternatives to Google's panopticon, other than projects such as Graphene.

matchboxbananasynergy

Google Pixel devices are the reference devices for Android. The reason why they allow alternative OSes to work and retain all of the security features of them is because of that reason.

I don't see any cause for concern here. Do keep in mind that GrapheneOS frequently contributes and requests features from upstream.

There was actually a recent thread from the project about a feature that was requested by the project and Google implementing it:

https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/109484290154201406

Furthermore, while Google Pixels are currently the best (and pretty much only viable) option, there's nothing that inherently ties GrapheneOS to Pixel devices. If other devices come up that implement the same security features and allow you to retain them with an alternative OS, they could be supported for GrapheneOS.

128bitpotato Or could they make future Android releases proprietary, ditching the open-source project?

This is absolutely counterintuitive and will never happen. I'm prepared to eat my words here. It just won't.

Google has everything to gain by keeping AOSP open source so that OEMs can build on it. More devices running Android means more devices running Google Play Services. They won't just give up on that.

128bitpotato We've seen how Google tries to limit ad-blocking in the Chromium browser with MV3. Could something similar happen to GOSP, making it harder to maintain privacy?

Contrary to the insinuation here, Google seems to be interested in furthering security and privacy, rather than hindering it. This includes MV3, by the way.

Google - being the huge company that they are - can have multiple projects with different focuses. AOSP only seems to be getting more private and secure as time goes by, not less.

I hope that this alleviates your concerns a little bit.

128bitpotato

matchboxbananasynergy

Thanks for your reply. I can absolutely see there's a point in keeping AOSP open-source. Besides OEMs building on it, it has also proven useful in relation to the (as I understand) several contributions GrapheneOS has made in improving it. Improvements that might not have been without a third party.

Another question that comes to mind. From what I understand GOSP is open source, though rather unusable without the play services for the common user. In order to be permitted to use play services on your device you must implement it according to Googles guidelines. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wouldn't GrapheneOS's implementation of the sandboxed variant violate those terms? Could that lead to them pressing legal charges?

Also could they in the future integrate the play services on a system level that would make it harder to remove them?

Aaron

matchboxbananasynergy This is absolutely counterintuitive and will never happen. I'm prepared to eat my words here. It just won't.

Google has everything to gain by keeping AOSP open source so that OEMs can build on it. More devices running Android means more devices running Google Play Services. They won't just give up on that.

To further clarify, Google uses Android as their "Trojan Horse" for Google Play Services (location tracking, intimate data collection, usage profiling, ...). Same with free Gmail accounts so they can track, profile, advertise to you. Let me know if my understanding is erroneous on this!

At least right now, the number of AOSP (i.e. GrapheneOS) devices that fall outside the Google Play Services "Matrix" is inconsequential.

Stopping AOSP availability doesn't make sense, but Google IS ACTIVELY looking to force Google Play Services or other tracking mechanisms for their other "properties" such as YouTube. My LibreTube and NewPipe FOSS YouTube apps are failing at much higher rates as Google implements their "verified" YT user model. Doubt if it's a coincidence.

matchboxbananasynergy

128bitpotato Another question that comes to mind. From what I understand GOSP is open source, though rather unusable without the play services for the common user. In order to be permitted to use play services on your device you must implement it according to Googles guidelines. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wouldn't GrapheneOS's implementation of the sandboxed variant violate those terms? Could that lead to them pressing legal charges?

GrapheneOS doesn't come with Play Services. It doesn't bundle them or integrate them into the OS. It just provides a repo to download the apps. The Sandboxed Google Play approach makes it so the apps don't need to be included into the OS themselves to work (as the compatibility layer makes them work like regular apps), so this is not a concern for GrapheneOS.

128bitpotato Also could they in the future integrate the play services on a system level that would make it harder to remove them?

To be clear - and I know this is not what you said but I want to stress this in case someone stumbling on this thread thinks that - GrapheneOS doesn't remove Play Services. AOSP doesn't include them in the first place; and it is unlikely it ever will.

I'm happy to be corrected here, but even in the bizarre scenario that Google decided to make Play Services part of AOSP... that would mean Play Services are now also open source? I don't see how Play Services can be part of the AOSP source from which GrapheneOS and other OSes build from without Play Services themselves being part of the source.

128bitpotato

matchboxbananasynergy

matchboxbananasynergy The Sandboxed Google Play approach makes it so the apps don't need to be included into the OS themselves to work

Right, that makes a lot of sense. I have a hard time believing we would ever see it in the near future, but I wonder if their usage terms would change if an OEM would start shipping phones with this method to a broader audience.

matchboxbananasynergy To be clear, and I know this is not what you said but I want to stress this in case someone stumbling on this thread doesn't. GrapheneOS doesn't remove Play Services. AOSP doesn't include them in the first place; and it is unlikely it ever will.

Thanks for clarifying, I realized it might be interpreted that way after reading it again.

matchboxbananasynergy that would mean Play Services are now also open source?

This is actually a very interesting point that didn't strike my mind and will most likely never happen. As the huge majority of users most likely will continue to use stock Android as it is, custom de-Googled OS like GrapheneOS shouldn't pose a threat, but rather an opportunity.

Thanks again for your thorough replies, this has indeed alleviated most of my concerns. After only a couple of weeks with GOS I'm amazed by how smooth and functional it is. I don't know how I'll ever be able to go back to anything els. Hopefully stock Android will become more secure and privacy friendly one day, but unlikely in the foreseeable future.

abcZ

Aaron They are certainly trying, but its actually becoming easier and easier to break your dependence on them, mainly because things like Nextcloud are available, which can actually replace pretty much all of gooble.