A bit off-topic, but does anyone use GOS on a Pixel 8 and can speak on the sound quality with headphones / a good dongle to use? Looking to play FLAC music files with IEMs + solid dongle for a good overall music experience.

Bonus points if anyone knows if there's a difference in sound quality of a Google Pixel 8 with IEMs versus a designated audio player like a Fiio M7. Not sure if it's a marketing scheme or the sound on the Fiio will actually sound better than a Pixel 8 and a dongle setup?

    There's lots of snake oil and placebo in the "audiophile" community. The main things to look for are (1) an acoustically transparent DAC and (2) enough power to drive the monitors at your desired listening loudness, including peaks. You don't need an expensive or fancy DAC; something simple like the Apple USB-C to 3.5mm* DAC works very well. For power, check the specs for your IEM and plug its numbers into a headphones power calculator** to see if the Pixel is capable of driving them. IEMs are typically very sensitive with low impedance, so there should be no issue.

    For example, the Sennheiser HD 800 S headphone is actually drivable on an older smartphone at up to 100 dB, which is loud enough that you can experience hearing loss after 15 minutes of exposure. It's mostly more niche and exotic headphones that require dedicated amps, like planar magnetic and electrostatic headphones which typically have ridiculously high impedance.

    More reading, if you're interested:

    Using FLAC to play back directly is probably pointless if you're asking these questions. For purchasing and archival, fine. But Pixels have limited storage capacity, it's better to convert to a high quality lossy format like MP3 320 Kbps (Android) or AAC 256 Kbps (iPhone). If you think you can perceive the difference between lossless and high quality lossy, please do a blind A-B-X test to check before you waste your storage space. https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_abx

      minxes0v Ok great all of this was super helpful, it does feel like there's a ton of snake oil out there and hard to tell what's actually worth it or just a gimmick.

      What I've gauged is basically the only changed I would need to make in my setup is basically upgrade from the wired Apple ear buds to like $100 IEMs like Fiio FH3 or something similar. I hoard FLAC files currently but don't mind it since I don't have a massive library nor do I want one, I get by with like 150 gigs of FLAC files that has almost all my favorite music in full albums. I just want to be able to listen to the music and enjoy it to the fullest extent, and seems like the simple upgrade in the headphone department to IEMs should be good enough and call it a day before I slip too far into the rabbit hole lol

      Assuming your FLAC files are good quality, yes, your pair of headphones is the best thing to upgrade. They are what actually produces the sound. :p IMO, good recordings is number one (can't make a low quality recording/file sound good), then headphones, and optionally use an EQ profile [1] to adjust to your preferred sound profile. If you haven't seen the Asahi Linux DSP work, see what a big difference DSP and EQ makes to fixing audio quality of speakers (even high end speakers/headphones have "imperfect" frequency response, assuming a neutral target). [2]

      For IEMs, the fit and seal is perhaps the most important part in ensuring good sound quality, especially for bass response, so be sure to try different tips (sizes and foam/silicon) if they don't feel right with whatever they come with.

      [1] https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master If you like a neutral sound, check out this repo which will create the EQ settings for you based on your headphone model.
      [2] https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/111230163766956867

        minxes0v Ok sweet! I use substreamer on iOS currently with self-hosted Navidrome to listen to music, but when I switch over to GOS and android I will likely use Poweramp as I've heard the EQ setting that are adjustable are great (unless there is a better FOSS option out there for android). I actually never really messed around with EQ before so not sure what is preffered, but probably neutral with a slight boost to the bass. The video is impressive in the difference so I'd definitely like to tweak that to my preferred settings once I have the option. And perhaps adjust my Linux setup to have the best DSP settings as well (plan on getting over to Pop!_OS soon).

          johnsmith123
          Have a look at the DAC compatibility list on these forums if you haven't already. The Apple USB-C DAC dongle suggested above is a good performer but as the second linked comment notes it has low volume on Android unless you root it (a big no-no here) or use an app like UAPP. That comment also links to Audio Science Review, a solid website that has measured some DAC dongles, and headphones and IEMs if you want suggestions -- look at the recent threads on Truthear and 7Hz perhaps.

          Alternatively, you could look at getting some IEMs that have an inbuilt DAC and USB Type-C, a popular recent budget choice are the Moondrop Quarks DSP, just plug in and go.

          Finally for FLAC use, be aware that the default Android media stack with resample all output to 48khz, various apps claim to work around this with direct USB media streaming. Perhaps just convert to your compressed codec of choice to save space.

            johnsmith123 Bonus points if anyone knows if there's a difference in sound quality of a Google Pixel 8 with IEMs versus a designated audio player like a Fiio M7. Not sure if it's a marketing scheme or the sound on the Fiio will actually sound better than a Pixel 8 and a dongle setup?

            First off, its the DAC/amp combo that determines the output sound quality, not the phone itself. When you use a dongle or a DAP the dac from the dongle is used, bypassing the internal dac of the phone. Therefore there is no difference between different phones when you use a dongle or other dac/amp. Usb noise does matter though.

            There is absolutely a DEFINITE difference between dacs and amps in sound quality, and while there is some snake oil out there, this is not the case for the majority of products out there. However you may not be able to hear this difference if your system is bottlenecked at some point in the sound chain. So its important to buy a "balanced" chain so you are not overspending on a given component.

            The 48khz limit of android is indeed something to consider. It was supposed to have been addressed in android 11. I don't know if it was and what the status of this is now. I dont know much about this, research it.

            The dongle or dap you buy is gonna have a definite effect on sound quality. However if you are getting a 100$ iem, then it might not make sense to spend 200$ on a dap or potable dac/amp.

            However a dap or a battery powered dac/amp has its merits as it will draw less battery from your phone, and it will allow you to attach a usb splitter which means you could attach a usb memory and the dac/amp and listen to music while extending your memory space and phone battery. Though i dont know how much noise this will introduce to the usb interface. The noise will affect sound stage and lushness of sound for capable gear.

            I dont know much about the fiio m7, but one look at its price of 180 usd and using a delta sigma sabre chip, i would say you are not getting better sound here, maybe more detailed treble, but no more stage depth or lushness. You are getting more features and comforts. Do research it. My 10$ abigail beat my LG v30 sabre DACed phone output in enjoyment and liveliness. So i tend to go for it over my lg v30.

            If your final aim is the 100$ iem mark then i think you should consider some of the 20-50 $ dongles. Some of them are very good and will appreciably improve sound quality. However if you are wanting to jump to the next level up i don't recommend anything in the portable dac/amp market until you hit the cayin ru6 ru7 and then the chord mojo (for sound consolation only).

            But do understand that if you get a more expensive dac/amp you need to also have a good enough headphone that can actually "reveal" the improvement. On a 100$ iem you will still hear the difference but it will not be convincing.

            Do research a bit specially regarding the dac/amps's output impedance and power output. Make sure it is the right match to the headphones you intend to use with it.

            A few pointers:

            • more power doesn't mean better
            • impedance and drivability is not about volume. You can get high volume on some high impedance headphones but you are getting bad sound and you not realizing it. So impedance handling matters. It shows itself is sound stage, imaging, depth, and lushness.
            • steer clear of all "measurement" focused reviews and measurement nuts. Measurements mean abbbsolutely nothing, nada. Except for the frequency response graph, which is very important.
            • instead follow reviewers with good ears and a sensible head.
            • balanced armature iems are very amp picky so be careful what works with them and what don't.
            • any headphone above 24 ohms will definitely benefit from improved drivability of better amps than the one that ships with phones or basic dongles. Headphones with less than 24 ohms are already "driven" fully and wont need amp improvements. (Planar magnetic a different ball game).
            • the DAC makes a WORLD of difference and you wont know this until you hear r2r and "chord" dacs. Not snake oil. But also dont fall into the trap of chasing this. Keep to your sound chain budget.

            For really good youtube reviewer channels I recommend:

            • headphone show
            • passion for sound
            • wavetheory
            • dms
            • goldensound
            • the honest audiophile (note: he considers slightly trebly as neutral).
            • cheap audio man

            Steer clear of zReviews or be mislead.

              • [deleted]

              johnsmith123 Hi, if you're deciding between a Walkman and a Pixel 8, go for the Walkman. It has been designed for musical quality and features transducers, amplifiers, etc. On the other hand, if you want to listen to streaming music, use your smartphone instead.

                • [deleted]

                johnsmith123 For my part, I tested a lot of audio equipment and spent a lot on headphones, dac and so on, only to end up using sony wf-1000xm4 headphones with my pixel 6a because for me they're the best. I buy all my albums on qobuz.

                  • [deleted]

                  You should also know that an audiophile listens to his equipment, while a music lover listens to the music. It's up to you to choose sides, but listening to your equipment will end up being very expensive.

                  [deleted] bluetooth is always lossy, but agreed the dac amp stuff and expensive monitors is not what makes a good setup for music consumtion

                  • [deleted]

                  The most important thing is to have a lossless compressed music file.

                    • [deleted]

                    And I think the best thing to buy would be a Sony Walkman, because it embeds dseehx technology, which allows you to reconstruct a lossy file.

                      tw-hx The Apple USB-C DAC dongle [...] has low volume on Android

                      TIL. I thought it was only the EU version that had lower volume.

                      User2288 while there is some snake oil out there, this is not the case for the majority of products out there

                      The products might not be snake oil, but people hyping up the differences and "details" you'll hear is almost all placebo. It's just a way to sell higher priced gear for no benefit.

                      User2288 the DAC makes a WORLD of difference and you wont know

                      Respectfully... there's no meaningful difference between high quality DACs. If you hear a difference, either it's not a good DAC, or you're experiencing placebo. The goal is to have as close to true analog signal as you can get from the digital input. If your DAC is changing the sound output, you might as well just use an EQ to get what you want instead of wasting money.

                      [deleted] The most important thing is to have a lossless compressed music file.

                      As I said above, please do a blind A-B-X test before claiming that lossless files mean anything for playback. Maybe you have golden ears, but the vast majority of people can't tell. Especially if they're not in focused, "critical listening".

                      [deleted] end up using sony wf-1000xm4 headphones

                      My most used headphones are wireless noise canceling, because I hate ambient noise.

                        • Edited

                        [deleted] nevermind. Don't know what he want. Your audio source is decent anyway if you're with us in 2024. DAC is in the cable. So USBc to 3.5mm klinke or usbc headphones. No IEM. Monitors are not for music consumption.

                        Still good in ears are bluetooth, music get lossy compression so APTXHD or what it's called is pretty much the only technical stuff to look at

                          • [deleted]

                          X43 Reread the first question then.

                          Setting aside all of the pros/cons of the audiophile world I am not an audophile but do enjoy "good reproduction". Thought it might be useful to you to know that I have been using an Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt dongle DAC (with its Dragontail USBA to USBC) with a pair of Sennheiser IE300's to listen to FLAC files since October. (Dragonfly DAC plugs into the USBC on the phone; the IE's plug into the 3.5mm output).
                          I run GOS and tried VLC as the player but found it buggy and its need to constantly reorganise the library annoying. I now run Mucke (from NEOstore) and whilst it lacks the more detailed options that VLC has it allows me to organise things as I prefer.
                          The hardware has worked faultlessly. Admittedly it runs the FLAC's at only 96kHz but this is for music on the move. I originally used a pair of Sennheiser Momentum in-ears and they were good but on trying the IE's found them to be even better - a far broader sound-stage. I have tried one set of Bluetooth Momentum's but - personally - didn't like the bulky feel and the sound-stage was nowhere as broad as the with the IE's.
                          Not looking to be flamed, after all music enjoyment/choice of equipment is very much a matter of personal budget/choice but thought some personal experience listening to FLAC's on a P8Pro may just help a little.

                          [deleted] Hmm ok so do you think getting a Sony NW-A306 Walkman to listen to FLAC music files is better than just sticking to a Pixel 8 with a good $50 dongle and same pair of $100 IEMs? I don't love the idea of another bulky device for listening to music on the go / in the gym etc - but if the sound quality is better I think it's worth it, and also it has Micro SD slot so I could just keep FLAC files and have up to like 2TB which I doubt I'll fill up with FLAC files. Also debated like that Fiio M3 since it's tiny but not sure if at that point it's like the same quality as a Pixel 8 for FLAC music. Ultimately just want to enjoy my music to the fullest with best sound quality while on the go and while traveling. Seems like a designated DAP is the way to go with FLAC files (or MP3 at 320 depending on space needed) and just plug the IEMs directly into them and call it a day? Or will difference between Pixel 8 with $50 dongle and same IEMs basically sound the same as the Walkman with IEMs plugged in directly?