• [deleted]

  • Post #1

https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1588599635337445377

GrapheneOS isn't a ROM. It's an aftermarket OS. ROM means read-only memory. There are ROMs included on the device such as the boot ROM for the SoC. It means firmware that can't be updated (written). All the firmware and OS images are verified from hardware, but they aren't ROMs.

https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1621166278521290752

ROM means read-only memory and in the context of the devices we support is a common, important term to refer to read-only firmware built into hardware.

Components with firmware generally have a boot ROM which is responsible for loading, verifying and running updatable firmware.

https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1566646817537785856

GrapheneOS is an OS, not a 'custom ROM'. It's not 'customized'. It's an AOSP-based OS just like every Android OS shipped by vendors on their devices. It's far closer to AOSP than most.

https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1618336747058003969

GrapheneOS is a Linux distribution and fork of the Android Open Source Project. GrapheneOS is an OS, not a "ROM", which is an inaccurate and misleading term not used by the project. [---] GrapheneOS and AOSP are Linux.

https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1728593651146670409

We [GrapheneOS] don't use the term "custom ROM" from by the hobbyist Android modding community. GrapheneOS isn't a "ROM" and it can ship on a device rather than being installed by a user. It's based on AOSP just like stock Pixel OS and other OEM Android OSes and is closer to AOSP than most.

https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1674971620002103301

We [GrapheneOS] avoid the term custom ROM because it makes things sound inaccessible, non-production-ready and isn't technically correct.

GrapheneOS is a production quality OS which only supports devices with official support for running an alternate OS. It's far easier than desktop Linux.

https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1621166709104328710

GrapheneOS is simply an OS. We don't use the term ROM to refer to it and prefer if others try to avoid it when they remember. It's not correct use of the term which matters since it is something that's there. It's important since we have a focus on security work involving this.

    12 days later

    [deleted]
    ROM means Read-Only Memory and is used in Android as such.
    The ROM is the part of your system that is: able to run on its own, write protected and thus not changeable.
    Many/All manufacturers implement a way to bypass Linux' restrictions/file system permissions to be able to update their ROM ie. write to /system.
    The normal user is not able to write to that /system partition, which is independent form the /data partition, where all your apps and data is stored (/data is not needed to run Android).
    The only thing those two partitions share is (not always) the same hardware/memory chip.

    The contents stored on /system contain all software needed to run Android on that specific device including: drivers, configurations, scripts, applications, frameworks etc.
    They are read-only for the user and only writable after remounting as a system user or superuser/root.
    Therefore ROM can be considered a valid and correct term for the Android system's /system partition/ROM partition.

    In other words, both OS & ROM are technically correct and this repeated meme needs to die, it's semantic word play. NOBODY in the history of referring to Android has ever used ROM to refer to Read Only Memory. However, the GrapheneOS image does in fact contain sections of ROM, as does OneUI or OxygenOS or Ubuntu. Otherwise anybody could install or delete anything they felt like as if it was Windows 95 allowing users to delete System32 files.
    Or how about that smart phones are more computers with telephony modules rather than phones with computer modules, yet we still call them phones.

    This is all equivalent to the "ackshually" meme and just comes off as excessively pedantic

    • de0u replied to this.

        N3rdTek The contents stored on /system contain all software needed to run Android on that specific device including: drivers, configurations, scripts, applications, frameworks etc.
        They are read-only for the user and only writable after remounting as a system user or superuser/root.
        Therefore ROM can be considered a valid and correct term for the Android system's /system partition/ROM partition.

        By that reasoning an Ubuntu system's /boot and / could also be called a "ROM"? "Yesterday I had a disk error so I needed to reinstall my Ubuntu ROM"?

            de0u For Android, /system is write protected and generally even read protected (by users).
            Technically, any portion of a modern OS be it Ubuntu, MacOS, iOS, Windows, or the glorious TempleOS has specific partitions set as read only for end users and does not by default allow for writing to those areas

            • de0u replied to this.

                N3rdTek Technically, any portion of a modern OS be it Ubuntu, MacOS, iOS, Windows, or the glorious TempleOS has specific partitions set as read only for end users and does not by default allow for writing to those areas

                I agree. But people don't go around calling those things "ROMs". Calling an OS, or an OS's system partition, a "ROM" appears to be a quirk of some parts of the Android community, and it is a quirk that the GrapheneOS developers object to.

                    de0u they both are the exact same thing just in the opposite direction. Do they call those things ROMs? No, but they could. Are they wrong not to? No because true ROM can't be written to except in the production factory.
                    Why do we call our devices a SmartPhone when it's really just a computer with calling capabilities? Is one more correct than other? Also no

                      • [deleted]

                      • Post #7

                      It's just a harmless name and everyone know what it refers to. It isn't worth getting mad over.

                        [deleted] this is precisely what I am getting at. I understand that the graphene OS team would like to "let it be known", however they seem to have somewhat of a vendetta to ensure that it is not just known that it is drilled in. I find this to be quite excessive as they both refer to the same thing and they are getting stuck on semantics.
                        It's going to be an uphill battle in order to change the entire Android community into referring to the operating systems we use or flash as an OS not a ROM, as they are not the first to do this.

                        I am not trying to cast shame or tell anybody here that they are wrong. In fact both are correct, I just find it very weird and strange that there is suddenly such contention about which is which when they both refer to the same thing. One is the other, and vice versa.

                        GrapheneOS is an Operating System, With sections of ROM in the image. Essentially you can't have one without the other and I wish this back and forth semantics rabble would finally come to an end

                          I like when they explain things, there is always something to learn. Sometimes I guess who wrote the message. Repeating again and again the same message to provide each time a clear explanation, it's a real effort and that shows the determination of the team.

                          It's very pleasant to have people using the corrects words in the right place.
                          In my opinion it's this way of thinking which makes GrapheneOS and the team working on it very special.