Automobile privacy

1qkv9ddu3so2irvz

Hi guys,

I'm using the christmas holiday to make plans for the future. One thing is what replacement I'm gonna chose for my 20 years old car. I want a new car, so I'll have to deal with the privacy nightmare that modern cars are.

What does this have to do with GOS? Not much, but there's something besides the implementation of Android Auto that GOS could help me with.

When I connect my phone via bluetooth, not only audio is being transmitted, but also metadata like album cover, music title, playback position etc. This data can be used to profile me: political views, religious beliefs etc. Since GOS is about privacy, I'd love to have an option to reduce this metadata to the absolute minimum. Is this possible?

I know that I could use a bluetooth or radio transmitter, which then only sends the audio data. But having that option directly in the phone would be much more handy and universal.

Thanks

indigomadelin

1qkv9ddu3so2irvz When I connect my phone via bluetooth, not only audio is being transmitted, but also metadata like album cover, music title, playback position etc. This data can be used to profile me: political views, religious beliefs etc. Since GOS is about privacy, I'd love to have an option to reduce this metadata to the absolute minimum. Is this possible?

Imagine you transfer only audio. An attacker could use Shazam to identify the song, then locate it on Spotify to access the title, cover art, and lyrics.

MichalPawel

1qkv9ddu3so2irvz Hi guys,

I'm using the christmas holiday to make plans for the future. One thing is what replacement I'm gonna chose for my 20 years old car. I want a new car, so I'll have to deal with the privacy nightmare that modern cars are.

What does this have to do with GOS? Not much, but there's something besides the implementation of Android Auto that GOS could help me with.

When I connect my phone via bluetooth, not only audio is being transmitted, but also metadata like album cover, music title, playback position etc. This data can be used to profile me: political views, religious beliefs etc. Since GOS is about privacy, I'd love to have an option to reduce this metadata to the absolute minimum. Is this possible?

I know that I could use a bluetooth or radio transmitter, which then only sends the audio data. But having that option directly in the phone would be much more handy and universal.
One more thing I always check before buying a new car is the expected fuel cost on longer trips – there's a simple online tool here that lets you quickly calculate it based on distance and average consumption. Super useful for comparing models.
Thanks

Thanks

Hey, totally get the privacy concerns with modern cars – they're basically rolling data collectors these days.
On the Bluetooth metadata thing in GrapheneOS: unfortunately there's no built-in toggle yet to strip all AVRCP metadata (title, album art, etc.). The best workaround right now is using a local player that doesn't send extras or routing audio through a simple FM/Bluetooth transmitter like you mentioned.
There's an open issue on the GrapheneOS tracker about more granular Bluetooth controls, so maybe it'll come in a future update.
Good luck with the car hunt – hope you find something that balances features and privacy!

SouthernPolish99

OK I'll bite.
First, I would think this is app dependent on what is transmitted with music. If you are determined to play specific songs (not stations) with a streaming service you are purposely getting all that extra data.

If you are worried about Bluetooth specifically, then find a vehicle that still has a physical audio jack. Or if you used wired android auto only (you can disable wireless, or many cars don't support that anyways), then everything is being transferred via USB.

DeletedUser629

I am not concerned so much about what passes from phone to car, but from car to phone app and to the internet.

35F and not from a generation that knows privacy - that was becoming apparent between ages 12 to 14 when Google started getting into trouble. I prefer a dumb head unit and separate navigator. The looks I get, like I am insane when I buy a new car and ask for the removal (and boxing) of the in dash system...

1qkv9ddu3so2irvz

DeletedUser629 but from car to phone app and to the internet

That's basically my point. Give the car as little information as possible, so it cannot send it to the internet.

I'm well aware that cars are a privacy nightmare, but within such, every bit of improvement is still a win! I'm currently working out any possibility to make a modern car as little of such a nightmare as possible. That's when this thought crossed my mind.

NetRunner88

I think this link is relevant :

https://www.mozillafoundation.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/

linux-dev

NetRunner88 That Mozilla report is complete dogshit. A lot of car manufacturers allow turning of data transmission, unless mozilla provides any evidence, that this feature is not working on these cars, e.g. on volkswagen, bmw have an incognito mode. I regard this report as some form of scam to make them look like the good guys, this report is like some AI generated crap, that scrapes manufaturers website for privacy info etc. but thats it.

Sagebath

linux-dev if you buy a new car, there's really no way to minimize the lack of privacy. Privacy comes at a cost. The cost is time and effort to learn about it, and in this case, the cost is having to drive a 10+ year old car.

NetRunner88

linux-dev
Not all manufacturers allow to disable everything

Your car brand isn't tested (only Audi in the VAG group is)

Why so angry ?

Car manufacturers grab data that's a fact.

secrec

linux-dev That Mozilla report is complete dogshit. A lot of car manufacturers allow turning of data transmission, unless mozilla provides any evidence, that this feature is not working on these cars, e.g. on volkswagen, bmw have an incognito mode. I regard this report as some form of scam to make them look like the good guys, this report is like some AI generated crap, that scrapes manufaturers website for privacy info etc. but thats it.

Is their incognito mode any different that chrome's incognito mode which still gives every bit of data over to google and links it up with your non-incognito chrome profile?

Do you see what I'm saying? Its about TRUST. The fact that they CAN do something and CANNOT be trusted means that you must assume that they are doing that thing.

To put it another way, IF you could trust what everybody says, then you wouldn't need security at all because your data would be perfectly safe without it.

linux-dev

Sagebath Nonsense. My Cupra has a privacy mode. No data send once it is on, the only drawback some features are disabled then, e.g. live traffic, map updates, remote control features through app etc.

mar2112

My 2025 vehicle defaults to sending data and the driver must turn data off when starting the engine. I fixed that problem by disconnecting the GPS and telematics antennae. For good measure, and since it was easy, I removed the fuse in line with the GPS module power connector.

de0u

linux-dev My Cupra has a privacy mode. No data send once it is on, the only drawback some features are disabled then, e.g. live traffic, map updates, remote control features through app etc.

I am curious as to how it was verified exactly what is/isn't sent in privacy mode.

I understand that assurances have value, because if a manufacturer makes an assurance and is caught violating it there may be consequences.

But the claim above was strongly worded.

Sagebath

linux-dev what is a cupra? Also, the dealership sends your info to the manufacturer and their partners. They activate the modems in the vehicles, sometimes without even telling you.

Eirikr70

Grab a good bike, possibly with electrical assistance...
My only individual vehicle is a bike, and it is 28 years old, so no privacy-problems!

thmf

I have 2 similar questions (or maybe 3):

Are there any modern cars that don't have ANY privacy invading practices? No sim cards, no antennas, no "on-star" or similar bullshit?
Are there any modern cars with crappy privacy practices, but those are physically sitting only in a car's head unit? Meaning I could just flatbar it out of the car and my car becomes a car from my question number 1. A crappy head unit with "car play" that sucks up all my data is ok only if it doesn't have any network connections at any time, including through my connected phone.
By "modern car" I mean something that's produced in 2025 (or 2026 in couple days). I guess both my questions boil down to "can I go to a car dealer and buy a new non-privacy invasive car"?

secrec

thmf "can I go to a car dealer and buy a new non-privacy invasive car"?

Doubt it. Plenty on which you can use the crowbar approach, but besides a few pieces of junk made in north korea, probably nothing that doesn't have SOMETHING that invades your privacy.

NetRunner88

thmf
Lots of things are mandatory, specifically in EU.
And as the car market become unified, you find quite the same stuffs in same cars around the globe

mar2112

thmf Some Nissan models have a telematics delete option.

userofgos

I totally forgot about this until now, there's a site/service that I came across last year that seems like it's making an effort to protect, automobile privacy. https://privacy4cars.com/

indigomadelin

userofgos https://privacy4cars.com/

Does it actually erase the log files, or does it only ask the car manufacturer, "Please don’t sell the data to third parties"? I don’t understand the app’s mechanism, is it technical or legal?

thmf

NetRunner88 Could you please elaborate? What specific things you have in mind? Are you saying most of the EU cars must have a sim card on board? What about Japanese brands? What about EU and Japanese brands in the US?