How broad ranging will this eventually be & how to avoid?

secrec

MineralWater Age verification is needed, specifically for (un-)social media apps and others.

The problem is the nanny state mechanisms used for age verification. You shouldn't have to prove who you are to random scumbags on the internet, like g00gle. They have no legitimate business knowing who you are or what you're doing, nor does anybody else.

How age verification should be implemented is on the user side. Children's internet usage should be controlled by their parents, not by government or websites. To facilitate this, websites/services should be required to publish age restrictions or other details so that end user access limiting software has the data needed in order to pass or block.

Novalissoide

secrec
Well, since age restriction policy can be implemented in a way that's only verifies a users age, not their full identity, that will be, and should be up to the developer/provider to decide.

mmmm

Novalissoide well cookie banners could be implemented with a none obtrusive click to accept or just ignore by default notice at the bottom of the page, but they aren't.

Age verification is a slippery slope, once it is somewhere it will be everywhere. As I said previously signing in is becoming more and more enforced. I can see a situation where you'll need to verify its you to prove you're not creating a fake account to read the news. And considering how polarising and political the news is, and who you should or should support.. The world is heading to a strange place, and monitoring of populations is increasing. This is one more method.

As if it was ever intended to save the kids from porn. What a joke.

secrec

Novalissoide since age restriction policy can be implemented in a way that's only verifies a users age, not their full identity

How exactly do you verify age without verifying full identify?

Answer: LOL.

Novalissoide

mmmm But if we view everything in this field as either on or off, and reject every attempted measure of regulation, the measures goes through anyway but lacking a good, nuanced debate about them before their implementation.

Eirikr70

Novalissoide Freedom from the Big Tech, yes, for sure!

user2025

One of the best article i found online these days:

https://mark37.com/digital-id/

Skyway

Wonder if you create a google account outside of the the us or UK using vpn would get around that ?

Xtreix

Skyway There are no restrictions on creating a Google account in the EU.

mmmm

Novalissoide this measure is like the proposed chat control measure. Its a blanket measure imposed on innocent people. Its framed as protecting kids, or fighting crime or national security, or fighting terrorism. But it won't really solve any of those problems. It will allow monitoring of whole populations with ease though.

DeletedUser495

mmmm nobody says you have to take part in this monitoring. The fact you can't live without Google ecosystem is another story.

mmmm

DeletedUser495 I don't use google, thats a really strange assumption. And I don't take part in it. Except, at some point soon (it's happening already) you will be suspicious for not taking part. As I said in an earlier post, I am obliged to have whatsapp for my kids school to contact us about their welfare whilst at school. There is no option. The uproar I initially created was turning into a firestorm which only now, some 3 years later, I have just started to make inroads into comvininv them that I am not some criminal weirdo. But I need to be able to be contacted by the school, right? So I must comply.

You and people like you sitting there and claiming that not partaking is the solution, have failed utterly to see the web has already been woven.

These id's will be used to ensure one is living a legal life, and hiding from them wont be the solution, more so an admission of guilt.

23Sha-ger

mmmm I am obliged to have whatsapp for my kids school to contact us about their welfare whilst at school. There is no option

Me too. This is why I keep it in a separate profile and open it for 5-10min a day. Just to get updates.
Media and all other shit are "download by demand" - click to view mode.
Since I "trust" my contacts not to 0day RCE me, for most threat models it should work.

nologo

mmmm So what would happen if an accident or something happened to your kid at school and you would not have Whatsapp? Any responsible teacher would try to reach you, by phone, sms, email, or whatever. If they didn't, they would be irresponsible teachers. You would not be guilty of anything. They would be.

There always is a choice. Being 'the one without Whatsapp' can be hard, I know all sbout it (I am that one). But don't let them pull a guilt trip on you. Don't let them take your freedom away.

mmmm

nologo So what would happen if an accident or something happened to your kid at school and you would not have Whatsapp?

Exactly. Worth putting to the test with my 5yo?

nologo Any responsible teacher would try to reach you, by phone, sms, email, or whatever. If they didn't, they would be irresponsible teachers. You would not be guilty of anything. They would be

Guilty of anything? You think the blame game would be on my mind if my kid had a serious accident and I was unreachable because of a choice I made?

Besides, of course they (or someone) would call me. But thats not the point is it. The point is resisting reisting things like this, on a small scale in this case, has firmly 'labelled' me, and by extension my kid. Bring that type of resistence to a bloc wide introduction of digital ids, and that resistance equals only suspicion.

I'm a hard working, legal, tax paying member of society, with a young family. Advocating against these things is absolutely doable, writing (pointlessly) to parliamentary bodies and MPs? Check. trying to resist what most people think of a secure messaging app? Check - Didn't go well. Resisting government mandated ids? Not sure thats a swallowable pill for 'normal life'.

23Sha-ger

mmmm
Kids first. Privacy comes second. You can't change the global system. This is why we keep using Whatsapp for groups, but Signal for important things. Personally I will go with any app they want, this is the benefit of GOS.

mmmm

23Sha-ger Personally I will go with any app they want, this is the benefit of GOS.

The benefit of GOS will be negligable if we're required to sign in with official identification to any site that decides to implement it.

I'm not saying that's what is happening, or what is going to happen, but in my mind it's not a stretch to consider that as an outcome.

raccoondad

MineralWater Age verification is needed, specifically for (un-)social media apps and others.

What exactly would age verification accomplish? If we restricted all social media to +18 that's one thing but that's not the intent and never was.

Who dictates what children can and cannot see? We already see access to content including history, religion, and medical information being censored to 'protect the kids.' When we start censoring information on STD prevention and consent towards children, when we alert their parents if they choose to read scripture or documented history & theory, what exactly are we doing?

Who exactly is being protected, and how? Because I assure you its not the hub that's the real risk to your kids.

Should they see it, especially as an 'educational sourced'? probably not, but I don't think people really understand what the real dangers are and how we as a society should combat it, because I assure you we are FAR away from even approaching the issue.

raccoondad

raccoondad Because I assure you its not the hub that's the real risk to your kids.

Follow up, a byproduct of age verification on NSFW websites would be that any website with legal mandate to moderate (any site operating in the US) would be restricted, alongside actual medical information on sex and sexuality, while non-regulated sites (aka, influx in abusive and exploitive images) will still be accessible to children.

Food for thought

Novalissoide

raccoondad Age verification isn't axiomatically bringing censorship. That said, bigtech should totally intervene when children gets exposed for scripture yes.. 😇

raccoondad

Novalissoide Age verification isn't axiomatically bringing censorship.

Then what's the point? When you restrict a service to people who are only 18+ and force an ID check, that's censoring the service for people under 18.

Regardless, it only censors pornographic sites for those who are mandated to restrict by law, not those who are not, which are the real dangers. Its a bandaid for the problem our society has on how we approach children, their rights, and the exploitation they face from adults. In no capacity will an age check system solve anything related to this.

It also comes into question when something is 'pornographic' or otherwise 'harmful', we already have seen basic information on sexuality being restricted as NSFW when its just medical information.

mmmm

Novalissoide Age verification isn't axiomatically bringing censorship.

Of course it absolutely does. It sensors websites for the people under the age limit. But thats not the real point, the real point is that for every person over 18 that goes to that site, that will now be registered. Ok for now it's porn perhaps, (not that it's anyone's business visting legal porn sites), but when it inevitably expands? One already can't view certain age restricted video on YouTube, or articles on reddit, without signing in. Many of these articles, posts or videos have no need to be age restricted. Many news sites are requiring signing to view articles. Social media could end up requiring actual physical real world ID to access? The short term path is a rose-tinted save the children from nastiness online. The long-term could have sinister consequences for many.

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