This is all just my opinion and based on things i have read, people in the forum and the os developers say. So keep that in mind, when deciding if you want to trust my words (its like third hand information).

wbchunx I have read quite a bit around the sandboxed play services, some posts suggest you should not use it if you can help it, others suggest as its sandboxed on a secure OS, its reasonably safe. Am I OK with it being installed in the owner profile?

The sandbox basically juat means that all the google stuff can just do exactly as much as any other app can do on your phone.
It has no more rights than any other app. (On normal anroid this is different)
Apps can communicate with each other by IPC, so when you install google play services, google knows what apps you have. But this is like not really big of a deal.
And ofc some apps use google play services for ads and stuff (even without internet), which you should take into consideration.

But it is not really that big of a privacy concern (or security) to have google apps installed. It is much more important what apps you use.

Like if you use a trusted open source app, like tuta mail, then you can be sure that they dont collect your data and try to be secure.
If you use some random app from who knows who, it doesnt matter if you have google play services installed. The app developer basically decides how much data they steal.
Ofc without play services some analytics and ads might not work anymore for such an app, and maybe they get less data because of this (because they used these libarys depending on this when building the app), but you probably should just not get such an app in the first place.
The privacy benifits of not having google apps are very small in my opinion.

wbchunx I have setup the phone with 3 profiles. My standard owner, a finance profile and one for travel type apps. Despite setting up sandboxed google prior, my banking app does not work within the finance profile. I seem to get a T00020 error. Looking around on the web suggests that the banking app should sit within the main owner profile. Is that correct? The banking app is Barclays (UK).

do you have google play services and/or google play installed in the profile with the banking app? i never heard about banking apps needing the owner profile

        dhhdjbd The privacy benifits of not having google apps are very small in my opinion

        I ment google play services/ google play store.
        Not google apps like maps or youtube. Using alternatives for these will improve your privacy..

          Thanks for coming back so quick, its really appreciated.

          I did have play services installed in the profile of the banking app, although I did install after the app install, I've no idea if that makes a difference.

          In terms of my owner profile, I do try to keep apps to a minimum. At present, I use MS Outlook (paid), Brave, Vanadium, Plexamp; Audible, Signal & Whatsapp. I try to keep it as light as possible.

            wbchunx I did have play services installed in the profile of the banking app, although I did install after the app install, I've no idea if that makes a difference.

            Maybe try clearing the cache and the data off the app and see if this changes anything.
            If not install play services and play store (since they can depend on each other) maybe this will help.
            If not try enabling exploit protection compatibility mode. (Long press on the app -> app settings)

            Sry if all of these dont work, then i dont know, maybe someone else knows more.
            (i mean you can also try the owner profile thing ofc)

            And considering that apps you are using, a likely to collect some data anyway (microsft, amazon, and meta), i feel like it would be unreasonable for you to try to remove google play services.
            If you want more privacy, then you would gain this by looking for alternartives for these.

            Sry i dont know an anwer to the other questions in your initial post.

            (also as far as i am aware, it is recommended to only use vanadium, since it is the safest browser)

              wbchunx I seem to get a T00020 error. Looking around on the web suggests that the banking app should sit within the main owner profile. Is that correct? The banking app is Barclays (UK).

              dhhdjbd i never heard about banking apps needing the owner profile

              Only very few have this requirement but it does happen, yes. See this report.

                  Thanks both.

                  I'll be honest, am still a little unsure whether I should deploy the bank app and google services into the owner profile I guess I'm looking for a recommendation. I could just use banking on my laptop and move away from using it on my phone but that seems a bit backward if its reasonably secure.

                  @dhhdjbd, you mention my use of Amazon, Meta and M$. I'm likely to move to protonmail at some point. Any suggestions for a good, opensource alternative to audible? & Meta?

                  Did either of you have a view around bookmarks in Vanadium? I think I'm reading that you can't import bookmarks at all, is that the case?

                  Thanks again

                    wbchunx I could just use banking on my laptop and move away from using it on my phone but that seems a bit backward if its reasonably secure.

                    your laptop is most likely less secure than your phone, i would not really recommend that. Can you not use it in your browser on your phone? maybe that is an option

                    sorry i did myself not yet really find an audible alternative.. for me most of the things i want are only avaible on audible

                    and for whatsapp you already have signal (which would be the best alternative (besides forks like molly))

                    You could also think about a setup where you like install everything + google play store and services in owner. And you bank app. But use only your bank app in the owner profile.

                    And then push all these app in a user profile, which you then would use as a main profile basically.

                      'And then push all these app in a user profile, which you then would use as a main profile basically.'

                      That's a potential good option. Reverse the profiles so the main one I use has all apps, etc and keep owner for specific use cases.

                        wbchunx oh i just remebered, you could also check out private spaces. I am not sure if this makes a differenze for the owner requirement.
                        I also dont know too much about them, since i dont use them myself.

                        But it might fit your usecase

                          I have exactly the same issue with the T00020 error on the Barclays app, works on the Owner profile but I tried to move all Google services to a private space and get this error when trying to setup.

                          I don't have any Google services running on Owner profile had all this on a separate profile but found it too cumbersome to change profiles quickly so have decided to move all this in private space.

                          wbchunx As Brave will not autofill within Graphene, is there any easy way to get bookmarks into Vanadium??

                          By "Brave will not autofill", are you referring to passwords from your password manager? Brave can do that if you:
                          1) Turn off "Save passwords" in Brave > Settings > Brave Password Manager (General chapter)
                          2) Select "Autofill using another service" in Brave > Settings > Autofill services (Passwords and Autofill chapter)

                          Regarding Vanadium, no there is no there is no bookmark import function unfortunately.

                              wbchunx That sounds very strange. To my knowledge there is no version of Brave without these settings - unless maybe a very old version or something but I assume that your Brave is up to date.

                                Brave on all other platforms where I use it, is cool. Just no option as suggested on the Graphene version? Is bizarre!

                                I have a profile with Google Play installed purely for banking apps only (No Google Play anywhere else). NatWest, Starling, Revolut, you name it, works. (I have no Barclay's though!). If Barclay's is a still persistent problem I'd try to install Google Play on the owner's profile, disable it and push it to the other profile and install Barclay's there (I never tried it but it could help).

                                Brave browser password auto fill works great. What doesn't work great if you're using Obtainium (Brave without Google Play) is the Sync feature allowing you importing all stuff from you desktop, etc.

                                There's also great FOSS app called KeePassXC - Cross platform password manager. It also supposed to auto fill passwords from the database stored in your phone, and with proper app's privilege to access the keyboard I think (I am still about to explore this option and I'd like to know others opinion).