Why Privacy?

5rlyn

The easiest way to get others to understand is to point out that you aren't doing anything wrong (hopefully) when you get laid, but in all likelihood, both people probably want that to remain private.

secrec

Because in 10 years when that currently-not-wrong thing you do today is made into something "wrong", it is good to avoid being retroactively condemned for it.

Like 10 years ago, it wasn't wrong to speak out against government, and now people are being thrown into jail for it.

Someone who last year worked in DEI in the US is now completely unemployable.

Further, there are places in the world where right and wrong differ from other places.

Something you are doing is wrong.... somewhere.

Here's an example; something deemed "not wrong" in most civilized places is punishable by DEATH in other places;
https://247wallst.com/special-report/2019/06/12/countries-where-being-gay-is-legally-punishable-by-death/

blackpill

secrec this. Every category of people and their activities are just a regime change away from being persecuted.

DeletedUser127

Regardless of moral and ethical aspect of using any app or service or (predominantly network) use of your device, you should be able to choose what others can and can not see. That said, when using any apps or services you are presented with/tricked into agreeing with various terms and conditions and agreements before using them. You should always make informed decision about data collecting practices and avoid stuff you are not comfortable to use. Why? Because you have the right to keep information private, others would not like you to see.

BaronAfanas

Look at Naomi Brockwell's video about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcqh0ZSza50&pp=ygUcTmFvbWkgYnJvY2t3ZWxsIHByaXZhY3kgaGlkZQ%3D%3D

lcalamar

BaronAfanas very good video!

DeletedUser127

If in the future you encounter a strong backer of "I have nothing to hide" philosophy, ask them to lend you their unlocked personal device for a day and ensure them you will not do anything bad with it. You won't have to ask them ever again, because they will never agree to it.

lcalamar

DeletedUser127 Love this!

Delaney

DeletedUser127 I don't like this argument because it fails to illustrate the pervasive nature of surveillance. It's one thing for my friend to ask me to hand my phone over. It's another thing for my friend to "keep tabs" on me in the background without my explicit awareness.

leafnose

I’ll only answer regarding one aspect.

Solidarity: we should defend privacy for people who may need it; obviously, the best way to do so is to have privacy ourselves, so people having a dire need of it, fighting for the good of society, won’t stick out from the herd.

No privacy means living in a panopticon.

elih

The value of privacy may not be as clearcut to some as it is to others. However, the value of protecting one's attention has become increasingly clear, and measureable, over time. Enhancing one's privacy is a good means to disrupting the positive feedback loops that are used to hijack attention. Some good sources on this are Jonathan Haidt on the anxiety epidemic, Yuval Harari and Tristan Harris on the the failure of the silicon valley business model and potential impacts of AI, and more recently journalists like Chris Hayes. The message is perhaps more direct in moments of brutal honesty straight from the benefactors of the attention economy themselves, such as: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J54k7WrbfMg
I'm pretty sure Sean Parker and Chamath Palihapitiya value their privacy, which provides a pretty strong signal that everyone else should value privacy as well.

lcalamar

This Ted Talk is also excellent! https://yewtu.be/watch?v=pcSlowAhvUk

DeletedUser370

https://www.wired.com/2006/05/the-eternal-value-of-privacy/ [archived version]

Xtreix

DeletedUser370 I remember this article written by Bruce Schneier which I had then lost sight of, thank you, it's very topical 19 years on and will remain so for years to come.

chance

Why privacy? I'd instead reason by asking "why not privacy?". The burden of proof should always be on the party wanting to infringe on your right to privacy. Companies could've moved to monetization of online services by now but there is an entire data industry that is thriving off casting the widest net possible by putting their trackers on virtually every site.

Practically speaking there is really no telling what these companies do with the data they collect. I mean they'll never say they abuse the data or resell it but enough of us here know firsthand how shoddy some companies security practices can be. Huge data breaches happen somewhat regularly, keeping your data to yourself is a way of mitigating those risks.

N1b

I've heard this sentence somewhere and wrote it down because I like it a lot: "It's not because you're trying to hide what you do, but because what you do will at some point become exposed to every bad actor on the internet."

I can also recommend this German article in case your friend is German: https://www.kuketz-blog.de/nichts-zu-verbergen-ein-moderner-mythos-und-12-argumente-dagegen/

Chipper

lcalamar The discussion around "why should i care about online privacy" in my mind is immediately the wrong frame, the real discussion needs to start with the fundamental precep that we are all born equal, if you accept we are all born equal, then it follows we are all entitled to equal atonomy, responsibility, rights (access to resources) etc applied to privacy that means we either all have the right to know everything about everyone, or nothing about anyone... Im in the nothing about anyone camp, and every person, or entity that uses some form of power/advantage to take that right from me without consent is directly attempting to gain advantage over me though exercising control of my rights. Whether i have anything to hide has zero to do with why it is wrong. It is wrong because it is disrespecting my rights, and because i am not given the eqivalent level of transparency into those exercising the control.

nunyo

"I have nothing to hide." Nothing becomes something overnight. Who would have thought your private (made public) views about a medication would cost you your job before 2020? Or that certain political candidate you support would result in your bank closing your accounts before 2016? Or your private religious beliefs and traditions would have you targeted by 3 letter agencies before 2023? All of this in the "freest" country on earth (allegedly). Everyone has something to hide even when they shouldn't...

lcalamar

After much review... It seems that one of the basic tenets of privacy is that while I have nothing to hide...

... someone else may determine that you DO.

It isn't up to the person to decide they have nothing to hide because that judgement doesn't belong to them.

lcalamar

lcalamar ... adding to this:

... and those judgements happen to people with nothing to hide's - associates.
So while you may have nothing to hide - if I communicate with you online - then all of the sudden you are putting me at risk...

Watermelon

This is the best thing I've ever found to explain why, a very short read:
https://whyprivacymatters.org/
It's such a perfect, short, to-the-point explanation.

lcalamar

Watermelon That is really good....

This part is very strong: "Not all information in your control is yours to share. Information shared privately with you by friends, family, and coworkers is not yours to reveal to a government, company, or another person

... for instance I use ProtonMail - but since 90% of my emails go out to non-secured emails - then my content is being scanned anyway? I know other users who refuse to send emails outside a secured environment... I can force that issue in ProtonMail - but then 90% of that 90% just won't bother...

Blastoidea

You need to start looking for smarter friends.