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  • iPhone vs GrapheneOS - specifically on privacy

I'd love to get opinions on privacy on iphones vs a graphene pixel, specifically on the privacy front. For arguments sake, let us assume they are similar on the security front with Graphene likely being a little better.

For this thought experiment, let us assume that the iphone is used without icloud and siri enabled. No apple apps are used except the app store.
Both phones keep location services off 99% of the time and have minimal apps installed (browser, email, signal) and both phones use a SIM card in addition to wifi.

What got me thinking about this was this research paper:
https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf

The author concludes that data such as IMEI, hardware serial #, SIM serial #, phone #, location (if location enabled) etc... are sent to Apple and Google (if using standard android) every 5-10 minutes.

My thought process is that most, if not all, of the data the author concluded is sent to apple and google is already collected and sent to your SIM provider somewhat regularly. Even if you use a grapheneos phone, isn't most of that data the author was concerned about still being collected about you, just not by apple or google? So I understand that using graphene prevents one additional source (apple/google) from getting your information which is great, but another party (sim provider) is still grabbing all of that data...?

I've heard mixed opinions on this forum about what exactly people are worried apple is collecting. Some people believe it is basic telemetry (as the author above proved with his jailbroken iphone man in the middle analysis) and some people believe it is literally everything. I haven't found many actual studies other than the one I linked to, but I would love to hear more informed opinions than my own!

    treenutz68

    I'm a long time iPhone user and just bought a graphene phone to try it out. Interested in hearing opinions about this as well as I test out graphene to see if it could work for me long term!

      No one can answer without speculation because iOS is closed source. All you can do is read Apple's privacy policy and draw parallels to their other devices when using programs that monitor outgoing traffic.

        One uses a proprietary OS made by a billion dollar company that seems intent on training their AI.

        The other is a FOSS OS made by a non-profit.

        Which one do you think could steal your data against your will, and which one will preserve your data against everyone including themselves?

          wuseman AOSP is also developed by a massive corporation that trains AI. I don’t think that’s relevant.

            fria compare the two to two libraries. Imagine there is a book that you are interested to see and read. In one they let you in and let you freely browse and read the book of your interest along with all the other books they have. In the other they stop you at the door, read you from the book of your interest while you're being observed by cctv to make sure you're not taking notes or secretly recording, then they usher you back where you came from. You never get to see the book. Do you feel familiar now?

            This is only for entertainment purposes.

              Graphene1

              What do you think about the study that was done (see original post) that showed what telemetry was shared with apple?

              However, I do agree with you in principal because that was just a snapshot in time. Just because apple was not collecting what I would consider overly invasive data (because your SIM carrier essentially collects the same info), that doesn't mean they aren't doing something completely different today.

              Definitely a negative of a closed source system. However, I will note that when ppl bash closed source apps on the forum, I have seen some prominent forum members (mods perhaps?) jump in to say, just because something is closed source doesn't mean they are violating your privacy. I guess the same standard could be applied to a closed source OS?

              treenutz68 Telemetry isn't necessarily invasive, but if we observed objectively in the most neutral way possible, GrapheneOS wins because there's no telemetry/analysis in the operating system, there's nothing to disable and hope the request is met (like Siri and iCloud) because it doesn't exist in the first place.

              https://grapheneos.org/faq#default-connections

              IMEI, SIM card etc. is I think another subject and I couldn't say exactly what kind of data your mobile operator obtains apart from the data you knowingly gave for your subscription.

              SgtSurehand I understand the concept of open source. That’s an advantage AOSP has, I was just pointing out that being developed by a giant corporation that trains AI isn’t really relevant to how private it is.

                fria I was just pointing out that being developed by a giant corporation that trains AI isn’t really relevant to how private it is.

                It is very relevant when the alternative is an OS that is not made by a corporation as originally mentioned by wuseman.

                • fria replied to this.

                  Dumdum But like I pointed out AOSP is made by Google. GrapheneOS is based on AOSP.

                  treenutz68 iPhone 16 Pro and Pixel 7 Pro user here! I am currently using both of devices on daily with everything. As the end of road I still refering Pixel running GrapheneOS because I totally not trust Apple. Yes, you paid what you getting for; however, as I am getting mature and older I realize that Privacy and Security have to be parallel each other. I missed the old days when mobile phones are fun to use, and not worries any sh*tting things like hacking or stealing information! I will sell my iPhone and keep Pixel forever in the next week. Currently on proccess to purchased Microsoft Lumia phone as the backup for calls and texts.

                  Btw, sorry my English is not my first languages. My advice for all my younger fellows were choose which phone you feel comfortable to use , not worries too much, and DEFINTELY only uses when you need do not use so extensively!

                  Life still going on outside of your zone not on the smartphones.

                    Happiness-Craziness Currently on proccess to purchased Microsoft Lumia phone as the backup for calls and texts.

                    Please don’t get a Lumia phone, those don’t get security updates anymore and have been discontinued for years. You should stick with your iPhone that you already have or get a second pixel if you are concerned about security.

                      fria Thanks for your concerned, but the Lumia phone was my first smartphone while as the teenager, and those WindowsOS so attractive till today! I think it okay as I use it for texts and calling only not any sensitive informations.

                      Happiness-Craziness Currently on proccess to purchased Microsoft Lumia phone as the backup for calls and texts.

                      Hi,
                      like fria has mentioned, please don't use an old Microsoft Lumia, because you cannot use it private and secure!

                      – Yes, you want use it for calls and text only, but its whole system is vulnerable and difficult to secure.
                      And it is not so reliable as a new iPhone 16 Pro is (much better hardware).
                      – Yes, the iPhone 16 Pro has a much higher value und you could get much money by reselling it.

                      But otherwise, since iOS 17 (?) or higher you can delete the most of Apple's own apps from the device and combined with Apple's Lockdown mode you get a real secure and mostly private phone.
                      Deactivate Siri, iMessage and FaceTime, don't use other third party apps (except Signal app).
                      This way, you get an expensive, but valuable and nice device as classic smartphone like a feature phone, but with newest hardware and software and security updates!

                      Install OTP Auth on your iPhone as a backup for Aegis Authenticator on your Pixel phone.
                      Both can work local without any cloud storage.
                      And you can use iPhone's excellent camera…

                      Therefor also my hint: keep your iPhone as solid phone and use your Pixel phone as secure device with more privacy.

                        Eagle_Owl That was a lot of advices, and thanks again you guys! Well, the reason I want to sell my iPhone is because it is my first expensive iPhone of my entire life. $1,100-that was a lot for the phone! I still regret it. Btw, I believe Android much more value and lightfull to use than iPhone. Never touch iPhone again! I do not want to trapped by their wall garden and services. Hahahaha