Using RCS with Google Messages on GrapheneOS

Turtacular

5rlyn I started to make that joke but the sadness of it hurt my chest!

I wasn't sure if you and @cb474 guys comfortable with Signal (user names masking phone numbers, for example), but let me know either way.

morapelor

I see we're on the "You can't have an opinion on RCS not working unless you, personally, have submitted to the codebase of GOS" level of argument. Lol. They made an exception to get Android Auto to work but refuse to do it for Google Messages. They won't explain why one was OK but this is too far. I wouldn't be as annoyed if they hadn't gone and proven with the Android Auto workaround they are capable of doing it and are simply choosing not to for RCS functionality.

cb474

morapelor To be fair, at one point a Graphene mod in this forum said that with Android Auto it was less of a big deal, because it only affected the USB port. So I guess that means you'd have to have physical access to the device to exploit any vulnerabilities. But still, I mostly agree with you. It's hard to understand why the devs won't give users who want to do this the option to enable the necessary privileges for Messages, at least as a temporary work around. Instead, they've left us in this thing resetting every 36 hours hell for months or just deciding to break all your group messages and no longer receive them.

Cappucinto They are working on an own RCS app
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115831290263216324

They say in that thread: "We're going to be including our own E2EE RCS app and if that's not legal in Europe when we ship it, that's a problem for Europe rather than for us." Does that mean it will work with the carrier RCS systems? Or just between other people people with the app RCS will work, sort of like Smart Messages? Elsewhere the devs have said making their own messaging app was way too much work and they weren't going to do it, plus some of the elements of how the carrier backend work are proprietary and it wouldn't be possible anyway.

I don't know, I wish they would provide more clarity on what the roadmap is if any. That is sort of another example of how the little crumbs of information about what is going on with RCS on Graphene, if anything, are randomly expressed in terse statement in all sorts of different channels (here, github, twitter, reddit, mastadon), without much clarity or consistency. It also sounds like developing an app like that could take a long time.

Cappucinto

They are working on an own RCS app
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115831290263216324

After my RCS gets disconnected, I reinstall it using the two apk method several times in a row. Thats how I get it working again after a few weeks of having no issues at all. I am on german T-Mobile network.

litlelilim

Cappucinto
This is greatest news in this 1900+ thread of doomer posting. I will be throwing my money to Graphene so they get this done and I suggest if RCS is important to you and can afford it. You should do the same

WestQuester

litlelilim Concur! I'm forced into using RCS (and it's not terrible as a format in itself) but would love to ditch Google Messages entirely!

anorak

Wanted to share what has been working for me with my Pixel 9 Pro on Mint Mobile. I was following @Turtacular method for a while with no issues till the 36 hour issue came back and had to reinstall. That happened twice and on the second time I did the following and have been over 72 hours without any issues. I used the same versions from the original method, but after installing 20250311_04_RC01 and gettings RCS to be fully connected/working, I simply uninstalled and reinstalled 20241120_00_RC07 again and RCS remained connected and has been ever since. Hope that works for you too.

This of course could break at any point. I urge the GOS devs to make this a higher priority as I really would like not to revert to stock but reinstalling Google Messages every day is not practical and using another messaging app and missing all my group messages is not realistic. If I have to reinstall every 24-48 hours I will end up reverting to stock. I don't want to miss out on the better security and privacy this OS provides but carrier-based messaging is one of the most basic functions of a cell phone and is the primary method in the US unfortunately.

I understand that Google Messages is a proprietary app and it is not Graphene's fault that it's the only way to use RCS on Android/Pixel, but the reality is that it works on stock and does not work on Graphene and is caused specifically by the sandboxing of Google Play/lack of privilege that Graphene does, so it is therefore a bug. A bug is not something that has to live in the code they've written. The operating system has made changes that causes this issue. I have the utmost respect and gratitude for the Graphene team, but it is a serious issue in my opinion.

Oggyo

anorak is caused specifically by the sandboxing of Google Play/lack of privilege that Graphene does, so it is therefore a bug.

This is not a bug but GrapheneOS feature. See the Features tab on https://grapheneos.org/features#sandboxed-google-play
Having Google Play w/o privileged access is one of my reason to use GrapheneOS and a feel the same way for many of its community.

So, please stop calling this a "bug" and if you don't value what GrapheneOS already achieved about privacy and security - move back to PixelOS where, according to you:

anorak it's the only way to use RCS on Android/Pixel,

cb474

anorak I used the same versions from the original method, but after installing 20250311_04_RC01 and gettings RCS to be fully connected/working, I simply uninstalled and reinstalled 20241120_00_RC07 again and RCS remained connected and has been ever since.

So when you went back to 20241120_00_RC07 Etouffee remained "true" and you are able to send and receive RCS messages?

Also, to be clear, how did you do this? You deleted Messages 20250311_04_RC01 and then installed 20241120_00_RC07?

I thought of doing something like this, but when I tried to install/"update" 20241120_00_RC07 over 20250311_04_RC01, using the APKMirror app, it told me I couldn't install an older version of the app over a newer one, that I had to delete the app first. I assumed I would lose Etouffee being provisioned to "true." Maybe that was a bad assumption.

cb474

Oggyo This is not a bug but GrapheneOS feature.

It's a feature that causes a bug. I mean, this argument is so silly. People are just getting hung up on semantics. The way Graphene is designed, does not allow carrier based messaging with RCS to work the way it's supposed to. Unfortunately the carriers have decided to largely outsource the functionality of RCS to Google, but it is still a basic element of how the mobile networks work. In and of itself, breaking RCS would not be a big deal, but since once you have enabled RCS, your group messages won't fall back to MMS if it breaks, therefore completely disabling a basic part of carrier based messaging and how mobile networks work, that is a problem. Graphene, in this scenario, effectively breaks carrier based messaging. This is because Graphene is a non-standard version of Android that does not work the way the carrier's require it to work. So that's a bug that Graphene causes. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. A "feature" that provides and intentional benefit can break things and then it is causing a bug.

I also don't understand why people who have nothing helpful to say, jump into this thread to tell people that a real problem that they have with Graphene is actually not a problem and they should go back to stock Android. No one wants to go back to stock Android, people just want their carrier based messaging to work on Graphene. If we could disable RCS and have it fallback to MMS for group messages, I think we'd all be happy to do that.

cb474

Oggyo See, I have zero intention to put arguments to that lengthy thread, but please, don't put my words out of context. I was replying to @anorak who directly call the unprivileged G. Play feature a bug.

You said people should stop calling the problems with RCS on Graphene a bug.

Oggyo please stop calling this a "bug"

I responded to agre with @anorak that there is a bug with carrier based messaging caused by how Graphene breaks RCS. You don't have to agree with this, but it's hard to see how I'm putting words in your mouth.

Oggyo I'm not questioning the RCS for people who need it. Instead, I respect their needs and decisions.
That's why who ever find more important RCS services than GrapheneOS Features I kindly suggested with official instructions for reverting back to PixelOS.

This statement just shows that you have made zero effort to understand the problem that people are having, even though I explained it for the hundreth time in my response to you. People don't want to use RCS on Graphene because they prefer it's features. They are trapped into having to continue to use RCS if they ever enabled it, because carrier based messaging won't fall back to MMS based group messages if you disable able RCS or have it break as it does on Graphene. This has absolutely zero to do with people preferring the "features" of RCS over the "features" of Graphene.

You really do not understand the problem at all and are just one more person jumping into this thread to say ignorant unhelpful things and dump on people, who are stuck in a bad situation with no good answer. If you have nothing helpful to say and just want to get into semantic arguments about "bugs" versus "features," please take it elsewhere.

Oggyo

cb474

cb474 It's a feature that causes a bug. I mean, this argument is so silly.

See, I have zero intention to put arguments to that lengthy thread, but please, don't put my words out of context. I was replying to @anorak who directly call the unprivileged G. Play feature a bug.

I'm not questioning the RCS for people who need it. Instead, I respect their needs and decisions.
That's why who ever find more important RCS services than GrapheneOS Features I kindly suggested with official instructions for reverting back to PixelOS.

cb474 I also don't understand why people who have nothing helpful to say, jump into this thread to tell people that a real problem

Again, my reply was for @anorak, and based on their account creation (today) and/or contribution (1) to this forum the only intention for them seems to file another complaint among the 1.9k posts.
I also don't understand why people think that keep complaining can make the resolution faster.

I believe that GrapheneOS project already work on its own or compatible RCS solution and I hope this will happen some day.

Gramsci

cb474 It's a feature that causes a bug. I mean, this argument is so silly. People are just getting hung up on semantics. The way Graphene is designed, does not allow carrier based messaging with RCS to work the way it's supposed to.

Your comment here is incredibly ironic / duplicitous, considering you inserted yourself on this very distinction back in October while the founder of the project was engaged in routine maintenance of the project issuer tracker. They were simply marking a request as a feature—following the project's longstanding/standard protocol (see comments in issue #673 as an example)—when you intervened.

litlelilim

cb474 Would also love to know the timeline and scope of the GOS messaging app? Did this project just start this year? Does this implementation follow google's so it can communicate e2ee with messenger? @GrapheneOS

seaside

litlelilim cb474

The devs mentioned creating their own RCS app a few months ago on Discord. At that time, it seemed to me to be more of a long-term goal (as in it would be years, not months) rather than something they were actively working on. They mentioned that they would need to hire more people (and thus would need more funding) to be able to do it. No idea if there have been developments since then or if their Mastodon post is just another way of saying it's a long-term goal.

cb474 Agreed that I wish there were more clarity from the devs. Just having one, centralized place to provide updates instead of all over the place on various platforms would be great.

cb474

Turtacular I'm not sure I understand what you and @5rlyn are suggesting? Wouldn't it be better to keep communication here so other people could see it, benefit from it, and contribute?

Turtacular

cb474 I agree, eventually. I just had an observation and some questions I preferred to ask privately (that is, for the sake of my own privacy) before making the rest public for collaboration.

anorak

cb474
That's correct, I uninstalled 20250311_04_RC01, and then installed 20241120_00_RC07 and Etouffee remained true (just checked the debug menu to confirm it still is) and all RCS functionality (at least what's available on this old version) is working.

Oggyo
I was not calling their sandboxed GPlay a bug at all, I was saying RCS not working correctly is a bug which is caused by the sandboxing/lack of privilege. I made my account today to post that I was able to surpass the 36 hour reset via the above method, and add to the list of users requesting a fix so that Graphene can take it as a higher priority. I have been tracking this thread for months and don't need your criticism. Whether you or the devs consider it a "bug" is irrelevant. It is a big problem for a lot of people as evident by the size of this thread. And simply telling people to "move back to PixelOS" is not conducive to anyone. People want to use Graphene and appreciate the work of those who have contributed to it. That does not mean it is perfect and we can't point out issues and request that people who understand the software better than us get it fixed.

cb474

anorak That's correct, I uninstalled 20250311_04_RC01, and then installed 20241120_00_RC07 and Etouffee remained true (just checked the debug menu to confirm it still is) and all RCS functionality (at least what's available on this old version) is working.

Thanks for the info. I just tried uninstalling the current version of Messages I had working and then installing 20241120_00_RC07 and RCS totally disconnected. I then uninstalled and reinstalled again, RCS connected, but Etouffee was not true. So I just went back to the later version of Messages to get Etouffee to true. Hmm. Maybe I'll try again from the beginning later.

Turtacular I agree, eventually. I just had an observation and some questions I preferred to ask privately (that is, for the sake of my own privacy) before making the rest public for collaboration.

I see, I guess the question is how do we publically exchange our contact info for a more private way to message, given this forum has not direct message feature? I'd rather not give out my Signal contact or email publically.

5rlyn was just about to respond, but yes, it should be public. My recommendation was (assuming we are allowed to) a thread, possibly sticky-ed , solely consisting of the steps needed to make RCS work on a given carrier. Updated periodically. That was anyone who is coming to Graphene for the first time, or wants to change carriers to facilitate RCS, doesn't have to comb through literally 2k posts to find the info needed

Yeah, I guess that would not be a bad idea in theory. I wonder if the forum mods are really going to want another thread on RCS. And someone would have to be really devoted to updating the thread. I also think that anyone new to Graphene, should be warned not to enable RCS, because even if they get it working, they will be trapped having to try to continue to keep it working.

Oggyo

anorak I was saying RCS not working correctly is a bug which is caused by the sandboxing/lack of privilege.

Read again what you said. No, GPlay lacking privileged access and working in a sandbox is (fortunately) by design. That's why it is categorized as a feature. I've seen other comments here suggesting to allow the system app access as a workaround to (possible) make RCS work. And again, I've never said the lack of RCS support is not being a problem.

cb474 You said people should stop calling the problems with RCS on Graphene a bug.

No, I'm against calling the unprivileged GPlay app/services access a bug or lack.

cb474 This statement just shows that you have made zero effort to understand the problem that people are having, even though I explained it for the hundreth time in my response to you.

Why you think I don't understand the problem? Maybe you assumed I'm not a heavy RCS user? Or maybe because I don't criticize or parroting enough like you here? Or maybe you are that type of person who always used to have the last word?
Then fine. This is my last reply in that thread.

cb474

anorak That's correct, I uninstalled 20250311_04_RC01, and then installed 20241120_00_RC07 and Etouffee remained true (just checked the debug menu to confirm it still is) and all RCS functionality (at least what's available on this old version) is working.

Huh, I can't get this to work. I tried going back to the beginning. I uninstalled Messages; then installed 20241120_00_RC07, got it to "connected"; then updated to 20250311_04_RC01, got that to Etouffee "true"; then uninstalled 20250311_04_RC01 and installed 20241120_00_RC07, but Etouffee is not true. Rebooting and waiting did not seem to help.

In fact, once I uninstall 20250311_04_RC01 and install 20241120_00_RC07 its like going back to the beginning. I have to set Messages as the default SMS app again. When I open Messages all the settings have reverted to defaults. I have to wait a second for Messages to go to "connected." And, of course, Etouffee is not "true."

One weird thing is when I open the debug menu in 20241120_00_RC07, all the information listed is greyed out. When I update to a version of messages that will provision Etouffee to true, even while I'm waiting a minute for that to happen and Etouffee still says "false," the information in the RCS Connection State pop up is not greyed out.

Anyway, I wonder why it works for you and not me. Or if there's something I'm doing differently. It's weird how the same things have different outcomes for different people.

I also wonder if there is a way to force 20241120_00_RC07 to install over a newer version of Messages, without uninstalling it first.

5rlyn

Turtacular was just about to respond, but yes, it should be public. My recommendation was (assuming we are allowed to) a thread, possibly sticky-ed , solely consisting of the steps needed to make RCS work on a given carrier. Updated periodically. That was anyone who is coming to Graphene for the first time, or wants to change carriers to facilitate RCS, doesn't have to comb through literally 2k posts to find the info needed

Turtacular

cb474 I see, I guess the question is how do we publically exchange our contact info for a more private way to message, given this forum has not direct message feature?

Are you also on the Signal forums? Not that it's a great solution, but their forums allow messaging.

@anorak am I understanding correctly that before the recent break in RCS for you, yours had been connected for a long period of time? If so, one data point I think we share in addition to our carrier seems to be that updating the OS coincides with the time of breakage. For clarity, I am almost 100% certain the update itself was not the issue, but the fact of updating at all may play a part given how finicky the RCS connection is (note the workarounds to which we have had to resort).

anorak

cb474
I am sorry to hear it isn't working for you. My steps (to the best of my recollection because I am too scared to break it again) were as follows:

RCS working on version 20250311_04_RC01. Carrier services installed with all permissions granted. Google play has Contacts, Network, Notifications, Phone, Sensors, SMS. I also have phone number verification but I'm not sure if that makes a difference. I have also ran in the past the following commands from my shell history
adb shell appops set com.google.android.gms READ_DEVICE_IDENTIFIERS allow
adb shell appops set com.google.android.ims READ_DEVICE_IDENTIFIERS allow
RCS stops working shortly after Graphene system update (likely unrelated but not sure) around the same time as everyone reported it here.
Uninstall Google Messages, install 20241120_00_RC07 grant all permissions via app info, open and see "RCS not supported on this device".
Update to 20250311_04_RC01, open app, welcome to RCS message and everything working immediately.
About 24-36 hours later RCS stops working again.
Repeat steps 3 and 4 with the notation that I rebooted between steps 3 and 4 (likely not relevant). Rebooting had no immediate impact.
Uninstall Google Messages and reinstall 20241120_00_RC07 to be greeted with RCS still being connected.

Again on Mint Mobile on Pixel 9 Pro using an eSIM. May have just been luck that it provisioned and probably luck that will expire. But at over 80 hours with no issues. I haven't had to reboot the phone since so I'll have to see if that breaks it eventually.

Thanks to everyone for all the information in this thread.

cb474

Gramsci Your comment here is incredibly ironic / duplicitous, considering you inserted yourself on this very distinction back in October while the founder of the project was engaged in routine maintenance of the project issuer tracker.

I don't think you know what the word duplicitous means.

In any case, all I tried to do was convince the devs that the problem with RCS is more than a feature request, because of the way the failure to RCS on Graphene breaks carrier based group messaging for many of us, with no good solution on Graphene. Honestly I have not once seen the devs acknowledge the problem of MMS based group messaging getting broken by RCS and leaving many Graphene users stuck desparately trying to keep RCS working. I've been trying to get that point across, but there is no evidence that it is really appreciated by the devs.

That aside, do you think you are helping people here or doing anything constructive? You keep commenting with bizarre accusations of lying and duplicity, when people are just trying to discuss a problem and explain to the devs how it's affecting people. Your accusations make you seem paranoid. Why not just leave those of us who are trying to deal with a real problem alone.

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