Is buying a Pixel 8 a wise move for privacy ?

0xC4aE1e5

Lizard Pixel 3 was released in late 2018, let alone 2013.

DeletedUser115

Any info on if/when hardened_malloc will support MTE?

CodexAG

DeletedUser115 Any info on if/when hardened_malloc will support MTE?

Is this saying GOS is not making full use of the MTE in 8 series?

And to the other member asking if GOS allows completely disabling wifi scanning to avoid location tracking, is this also something GOS fully solves?

GrapheneOS

User2288

Also, even aside from this, the way the gps works on regular phones constantly gives away your location as well to a different google server. This has been addressed in gos and thats why gos uses its own gps call up server. I forget whar its called.

GrapheneOS doesn't use a network-based location service like iOS and Android. It still uses PSDS which simply downloads static databases and SUPL which downloads more dynamic databases. SUPL is normally used in a mode which doesn't leak much location information to the server beyond your carrier. We disable sending phone number and IMSI for SUPL which is part of authentication since the expectation was that carriers would provide it themselves and use mutual TLS authentication along with IMSI and phone number.

GrapheneOS

@User2288 Please avoid unsubstantiated claims about intelligence agencies, etc.

GrapheneOS

This was a video from i think 2014, where they tested with two phones while putting one in airplane mode and having no google account logged in, and another phone in normal mode with a google account. Neither phone had internet. They took both phones for a joy ride for a few hours. Once back they connected them to a sophisticated "man-in-the-middle" investigative router suitcase. The box basically deciphered the encrypted communication to google so they could see what the actual communication contained. They then saw that the phone in airplane mode had collected every bit of information about every wifi device it had encountered with exact time stamps and it uploaded that to google. This basically gives your entire travel path away with exact timing.

Network location service on the stock OS is optional and asks for consent. It has toggles for whether it can scan when Wi-Fi and Bluetooth are disabled. Airplane mode disables cellular and doesn't force Wi-Fi and Bluetooth to be disabled. None of that is unexpected if you allowed network location scanning in the stock OS setup wizard, which is on the same screen as choosing whether to send usage stats.

DeletedUser115

CodexAG GOS fully utilizes MTE these days.

Regarding Wi-Fi scanning, yes, it can be fully disabled. See this section for more info on Wi-Fi privacy:
https://grapheneos.org/usage#wifi-privacy

GrapheneOS

CodexAG This thread is from October 2023, the month the Pixel 8 was released. It's not a good place to get information on it.

And to the other member asking if GOS allows completely disabling wifi scanning to avoid location tracking, is this also something GOS fully solves?

It's not an issue in the first place. Apps require the Location permission to get nearby Wi-Fi networks. There's no need for the Wi-Fi scanning toggle to be off. It does not give apps access to Wi-Fi scanning. That's not what the toggle does. The toggle is for choosing if apps with Location can temporarily enable the radio to do Wi-Fi scans when Wi-Fi is otherwise off.

CodexAG

DeletedUser115 Regarding Wi-Fi scanning, yes, it can be fully disabled.

From Pixel TOS: “Allow apps and services to scan for Wi-Fi networks and nearby devices at any time, even when Wi-Fi or Bluetooth is off.”

1) Even when toggled off...this is concerning. Does GoS eliminate this type of scanning?

2) Also I've heard GoS prevents apps from toggling settings. For example, going in to stock settings only to find sometimes the toggle option got turned on for location/audio recording even though had it turned off a couple days ago.

Would be good if Graphene confirms the two above items are prevented/secured in GoS.

CodexAG

GrapheneOS the month the Pixel 8 was released.

How about the 8a then, is MTE fully operational in GoS?

Anything else still needs to be worked out in this model, having just been released?

other8026

CodexAG Even when toggled off...this is concerning. Does GoS eliminate this type of scanning?

This question is more or less answered here:

GrapheneOS The toggle is for choosing if apps with Location can temporarily enable the radio to do Wi-Fi scans when Wi-Fi is otherwise off.

So if it's off, then apps cannot do that.

CodexAG Also I've heard GoS prevents apps from toggling settings. For example, going in to stock settings only to find sometimes the toggle option got turned on for location/audio recording even though had it turned off a couple days ago.

Apps cannot just change settings without permission.

CodexAG

CodexAG How about the 8a then, is MTE fully operational in GoS?

Anything else still needs to be worked out in this model, having just been released?

Still waiting for answer. Or is this now hidden too...

CodexAG

other8026 Apps cannot just change settings without permission.

Do you mean in stock OS or GoS?

Because definitely have seen this in stock, hence the qn.

GrapheneOS

@CodexAG

This thread is from October 2023 and was revived to ask about MTE which is covered well elsewhere. This thread was created before the launch of any devices with MTE support and continued after early support for them was added. GrapheneOS subsequently integrated a much more hardened implementation of MTE and began using it by default, unlike the stock OS. It has since been expanded and fleshed out further. A thread from before any of this happened cannot have information about it and it didn't make sense to ask about it here. Please check the date of the thread you're reading especially if you're going to post in it. We don't want to remove all the older threads with outdated information.

The further off-topic questions about the Pixel 8a and Wi-Fi/Bluetooth scanning have been removed. This thread is not an appropriate place to ask about Pixel 8a support. Information about that is already available elsewhere. Wi-Fi/Bluetooth scanning is covered well elsewhere including the official GrapheneOS site. We provided a clear explanation of what the Location toggles for Wi-Fi/Bluetooth scanning do in this thread already, but it wasn't the topic of the thread and is not a good place to ask for information about them particularly when it was already provided here in a clear way. Asking the same questions already answered by the project in the same thread doesn't make sense.

This thread was also not an appropriate place to ask about apps changing OS settings. The unsubstantiated claims about that within the stock OS are another inappropriate approach to getting information and that's easily explained by usage of quick tiles or explicitly granting this control to an app.

Ignoring responses from project members and asking the same questions again and again including throughout many different threads has been a persistent approach that hasn't stopped and we've finally reached the end of the leeway we can provide when combined with other threads where you're doing the same kinds of things and also attacking the moderation team who have had to manage this for a while now while doing their best to avoid solving it with a suspension.

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