Restrict Act

Subliminal

Has anyone heard about this Bill that is supposed to ban TikTok but is going to make VPNs illegal? This bill sounds very dystopian.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text?s=1&r=15

[deleted]

Subliminal Would you mind to point us at the section where it mentioned? Thank you.

VAULT

Subliminal Yes :( And very concerning!

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Subliminal

I've only heard hot takes from people unqualified to interpret the legalese.

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No mention of making VPN illegal, and I trust the EFF to have properly read through and understood. It seems this is just a rumor gone out of control. Still a bill bad for privacy though.
https://act.eff.org/action/stop-the-restrict-act-and-pass-real-privacy-legislation

Max-Zorin

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The EFF article you linked to states "the bill could also criminalize common practices like using a VPN or side-loading to install a prohibited app."

I'm no fan of big tech, especially the brain deadening TikTok but this just seems like a power grab like the Patriot Act.

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Max-Zorin

Certainly an overreach. But I think the EFF is saying using a VPN to bypass country restrictions on getting the app. Like if Netflix had the power of law, what would they do about country restriction. Still a far cry from the rumor of putting all general VPN use in a legal gray area.

thedylanarts

Section 11 F:
"No person may engage in any transaction or take any other action with intent to evade the provisions of this Act, or any regulation, order, direction, mitigation measure, prohibition, or other authorization or directive issued thereunder."

In my opinion, this has the ability to penalize the use or creation of VPNs.

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thedylanarts You do realize that this is an extremely vague statement that can apply to a wide range of activities. And the burden of proof is with the government. They can not prohibit you from doing something unless they can prove it has been done in illegal manner. Simple as that.

Subliminal

[deleted] (C) interfering in, or altering the result or reported result of a Federal election, as determined in coordination with the Attorney General, the Director of National Intelligence, the Secretary of Treasury, and the Federal Election Commission; or

One example could be using a VPN to post on social media questioning the result of a reported election. That could result in the seizure of....

(B) any tangible or intangible assets, wherever located, are used to support or enable use of the product or software of the entity in the United States; and

And penalties include....

(1) IN GENERAL.—A person who willfully commits, willfully attempts to commit, or willfully conspires to commit, or aids or abets in the commission of an unlawful act described in subsection (a) shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $1,000,000, or if a natural person, may be imprisoned for not more than 20 years, or both.

Subliminal

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SECTION 3

(D) coercive or criminal activities by a foreign adversary that are designed to undermine democratic processes and institutions or steer policy and regulatory decisions in favor of the strategic objectives of a foreign adversary to the detriment of the national security of the United States, as determined in coordination with the Attorney General, the Director of National Intelligence, the Secretary of Treasury, and the Federal Election Commission; or

(2) otherwise poses an undue or unacceptable risk to the national security of the United States or the safety of United States persons.

Using social media to go against anything that Big Brother says is good for America can be seen as Foreign Influence. These acts are open to wide interpretation which could be easily used against any "political dissidents".

Max-Zorin

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They sure can intimidate you into compliance. This is especially for people without the temperament, financial means or knowledge to defend themselves.

Have you ever got a cease and desist order for torrenting or routinely audited by your local tax authority? Lots of people completely cave in such situations, even if the charges and evidence are dubious at best.

Blastoidea

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No disrespect, but if you believe that, you are either very young, or have led a sheltered life.

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Yeah, this bill is over broad, overreach, and will likely be challenged on those grounds if it ever reaches the floor.
I am not too worried though. Because I know of a lot of ridiculous bills that are proposed, written up, and sponsored, SOLELY to make a political statement of being "strong on ___". Even the authors and sponsors know it won't pass. They just want to be seen making bold gestures.

And then there are the many similar laws on the books that would equally appear to be Orwellian to the layperson. But in practice, they only apply narrowly. But it takes a lawyer to see it sometimes.

This bill for example... With it's references to VPN. Sounds similar to current federal regulations regarding interstate travel. A crime conducted over state lines is a whole bigger deal, and adds an additional set of crimes. But panicked readers who don't read a lot of criminal code legalese, might take away from the raw text, that it might criminalize any and all interstate travel.

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Blastoidea No disrespect, but you know very little about me, based on what I posted and on both counts you're wrong. And let's leave it at that.

Blastoidea

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Okay 👍 (in case you aren’t sure, that’s a thumb)

thedylanarts

[deleted] If it is possible for scummy politicians to interpret it in a way that attacks VPNs, I don't want it. Also, what do you think VPN providers are going to say when they see something like this? They will just restrict US based VPN accounts to only tunnel to other US VPN servers. That would be real bad.

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Subliminal well then get ready for state DA's all over the country to indict

They are welcome to do it if the law is on their side. But it's just an empty threat of retaliation intended to intimidate.

Subliminal read about the hundreds of other corrupt governments and what happens when they spiral into totalitarianism.

Yeah, it it usually starts with dismantling democratic institutions. And having no accountability for politicians. Prosecution in this case, is what STOPS the spiral into autocracy.

thedylanarts If it is possible for

I understand the concern about a slippery slope. But even this badly written bill doesn't allow for this interpretation.
From what I'm seeing, this idea that VPNs are in danger is just speculation with no basis.

Blastoidea

I personally don’t think there has ever been a law so carefully written that it can’t be abused and twisted by law enforcement.

In today's system, it seems to me that you are presumed guilty unless and until you can prove you aren’t.

During a relatively long life, I have come 180° from what I was taught as a kid.

It saddens me.

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Blastoidea I personally don’t think there has ever been a law so carefully written that it can’t be abused and twisted by law enforcement.

True. But that's always been the system. It's the job of the courts to interpret. It's a checks and balances thing. It's better if overbearing laws aren't passed in the first place. But they do routinely get struck down if unconstitutional.

Blastoidea In today's system, it seems to me that you are presumed guilty unless and until you can prove you aren’t.

It only seems that way depending on how you consume news. If all you hear is about is when justice fails, then you will always get that impression.
I'm probably just as old as you, but my experiences likely very different.