Pixel 11 doesn't meet the GrapheneOS security standards and may be skipped

paul7285

If true, Pixel sales will hit buttom, and older ones will go up in price because high demand.

AtmosphericIgnition

Foggy Thanks for the clarification.

I built the sample program inside Termux, and ran it, and this is the output:

ID_AA64ISAR0_EL1    : 0x0021111110212120
ID_AA64ISAR1_EL1    : 0x0011101100311002
ID_AA64MMFR0_EL1    : 0x20000111ff000000
ID_AA64MMFR1_EL1    : 0x0000100000000000
ID_AA64PFR0_EL1     : 0x0001000100110011
ID_AA64PFR1_EL1     : 0x0000000000000021
ID_AA64DFR0_EL1     : 0x0000000000000006
ID_AA64DFR1_EL1     : 0x0000000000000000
MIDR_EL1            : 0x00000000411fd8b1
MPIDR_EL1           : 0x0000000080000000
REVIDR_EL1          : 0x0000000000000000

Handlebar6933

Eirikr70 Hopefully they get discounted after a year just like the Pixel, but we'll see

GazelleInitial

AtmosphericIgnition ouch

Eris

AtmosphericIgnition hopefully we hear some news with this upcoming update in September. I currently have the Pixel Pro 11 XL 512/16 GB and was really hoping to get Graphene setup on it.

ToucanSam

Eris Just jump on the QPR2 Beta.

Foggy

AtmosphericIgnition It would be useful to modify it to print ID_AA64PFR2_EL1, but that has the MTE bits clear in ID_AA64PFR1_EL1.

(There might possibly be anti fingerprinting reasons for the kernel to not supply the full register set here, but if that was the case I'd expect other behaviour, such as returning all zeroes)

Edit:
PFR1 decoded
PFR2

AtmosphericIgnition

Foggy

ID_AA64ISAR0_EL1    : 0x0021111110212120
ID_AA64ISAR1_EL1    : 0x0011101100311002
ID_AA64MMFR0_EL1    : 0x20000111ff000000
ID_AA64MMFR1_EL1    : 0x0000100000000000
ID_AA64PFR0_EL1     : 0x0001000100110011
ID_AA64PFR2_EL1     : 0x0000000000000000
ID_AA64DFR1_EL1     : 0x0000000000000000
ID_AA64DFR1_EL1     : 0x0000000000000000
MIDR_EL1            : 0x00000000411fd8b1
MPIDR_EL1           : 0x0000000080000000
REVIDR_EL1          : 0x0000000000000000

AtmosphericIgnition

ToucanSam The Android Beta program website says that no betas are available for the 11 Pro. They probably haven't finished porting it to QPR2 yet.

Foggy

AtmosphericIgnition So that looks like no MTE at all. Perhaps someone with a Pixel 8 to 10 series can confirm what they get?

AtmosphericIgnition

Foggy

Same program on a Pixel 8 Pro running the latest GrapheneOS:

ID_AA64ISAR0_EL1    : 0x0021111110212120
ID_AA64ISAR1_EL1    : 0x0010001101211052
ID_AA64MMFR0_EL1    : 0x00000111ff000000
ID_AA64MMFR1_EL1    : 0x0000000000000000
ID_AA64PFR0_EL1     : 0x0001000100110011
ID_AA64PFR1_EL1     : 0x0000000000000301
ID_AA64DFR0_EL1     : 0x0000000000000006
ID_AA64DFR1_EL1     : 0x0000000000000000
ID_AA64PFR2_EL1     : 0x0000000000000000
MIDR_EL1            : 0x00000000411fd4d0
MPIDR_EL1           : 0x0000000080000000
REVIDR_EL1          : 0x0000000000000000

The mte and mte3 features are also visible under /proc/cpuinfo on the 8 Pro, but lack on the 11 Pro.

Foggy

AtmosphericIgnition Yep, that has full MTE. Bits 11:8 are 0b0011, meaning all of the main features are present on the 8 Pro:

0b0000	
Memory Tagging Extension is not implemented.

0b0001	
Instruction-only Memory Tagging Extension is implemented.

0b0010	
As 0b0001, and adds:

Support for in-memory Allocation tags.

Support for synchronous tag checking.

Optional support for Asynchronous reporting of a Tag Check Fault, identified as FEAT_MTE_ASYNC.

Support for FEAT_MTE_ASYNC is indicated by ID_AA64PFR1_EL1.MTE_frac.

0b0011	
As 0b0010, except that support for FEAT_MTE_ASYNC is mandatory, and adds support for Asymmetric Tag Check Fault handling, identified as FEAT_MTE_ASYM_FAULT.

The 11 has 0x0, meaning MTE not implemented.

Norman

It's a massive shame because the Pixel 11 isn't entirely a security downgrade from the Pixel 10 because of Titan M3.

If it was entirely a security downgrade from the P10 series I would 100% agree with not wanting GrapheneOS support for it, but this makes it more tricky. Someone could want the increased BFU security of the Titan M3 but now can't make full use of it with GrapheneOS' crucial BFU/Locked security improvements.

Ultimately this makes the Pixel 11 not meet GrapheneOS minimum requirements though so I suppose that's the ultimate hurdle. The team has never made exceptions from the minimum reqs for other devices, so why would they for the Pixel 11? Don't see why that would happen unless the project was in an existential threat, which it's not thanks to Motorola.

GazelleInitial

Foggy would it just show that though on the 11 if it just wasn't implemented in software? For some reason.

AtmosphericIgnition

I would like to mention that according to Google, I have until September 4th (phone arrived on August 20th) to return my 11 Pro for a full refund.

This means that everyone who ordered the 11 Pro from the Google Store in the US should be eligible for a return. After initiating the return process online, you should have 14 days to drop the phone off at a FedEx location, no packaging or label required.

Eris

GazelleInitial I was speaking with a Google representative so take it with a grain of salt. They said it's not a software implementation that's lacking but an ommision of the hardware that supports it entirely.

de0u

Norman Someone could want the increased BFU security of the Titan M3 but now can't make full use of it with GrapheneOS' crucial BFU/Locked security improvements.

As pointed out in the official comment on Mastodon, there is a scenario under which the 11a might have MTE and the Titan M3.

It's great that the GrapheneOS developers went public so quickly with their finding. Personally I think it's fine if their process of figuring out what to do takes a while.

AtmosphericIgnition

Eris

I contacted Google a second time, and got the same answer. I would also take the info with a grain of salt because that same rep also tried to insist that MTE was dropped because "The Titan M3 with post-quantum boot is such a massive upgrade that it makes MTE unnecessary."

legreteco

Iceschillendrig refurbished

I tend to stay away from refurbished devices. Phone Repair Guru has good videos on that

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