Pixel 11 doesn't meet the GrapheneOS security standards and may be skipped

RideTheTiger

Quettaraka Progress sometimes means challenging market standards rather than simply accepting them. GrapheneOS could have lowered its standards to expand, but instead it is advancing security while expanding to Motorola devices. Users should be excited about this change, it opens the door to more open source potential, stronger security, and broader possibilities.

mpn

de0u I returned my Pixel 11 Pro for that reason alone. I told Best Buy it was "security features were missing" when returning my sealed P11Pro.

I just hope it's the Pixel 5 over again when Google thought they could skip flagships, the way they skipped MTE with the Pixel 11. Or even temporary for the P11 but not 12. I actually got a OnePlus 8 off Swappa during peak COVID because the Pixel 5 was a worse device outside of security (I didn't know GrapheneOS at the time).

Today it's Motorola's upcoming GrapheneOS device instead of a OP8. That's probably my next phone, or if it's a dud maybe an iPhone 19 Pro when it comes out, unless the Pixel 12 reinstates MTE. The only problem with Moto would be a ₆.8" screen.

de0u

mpn These are uncertain times! Hopefully Google tracks return rates and reasons at least a little.

mpn

de0u Hopefully this.

Or that the Pixel 11's proposed MTE was buggy and problematic, but the Pixel 12 reinstates it. That's the best case scenario. Hopefully it's the Pixel 5 dud all over again (this is why I went Pixel 3->OnePlus 8 and not Pixel 3->5).

Motorola is promising. I had a Z2 Force and it was a solid phone if you ran LineageOS, although navigating NYC without a compass was a problem, but the upcoming Moto GOS phone probably won't have that issue.

RideTheTiger

Motorola has been putting out some compelling devices, but its operating system options have always held me back. Now it’s finally going to be my next phone.

Cedarwood

Thanks for the timely warning. Will never use stock Android!

Developer-Dude

Here you go, everyone

Supporting a device without MTE would cause a lot of damage to the GrapheneOS project. Our security requirements are not simply what the latest Pixel provides. It would do a lot of damage if we reduced it to that.

How would it make sense to lower our standards by dropping our MTE requirement after we required Motorola to add MTE before we would support their devices?

https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117192493945403238

FunkTastic

Developer-Dude How would it make sense to lower our standards by dropping our MTE requirement after we required Motorola to add MTE before we would support their devices?

That explains everything.

GrapheneOS

2nd announcement with an update based on Android 17 QPR2 Beta 4 for the Pixel 11 series which was uploaded around 10 hours ago:

We have good news about the Pixel 11. It still has at least bare minimum support for MTE at a hardware level. We think they removed most of the hardware acceleration from the CPU cache to save money. They ruined the performance so it ended up being fully disabled in firmware. It may still be usable.

Android 17 QPR2 Beta 4 was released on August 28th. It's the first Beta release with Pixel 11 support. MTE support is still completely disabled in the OS and arm64.nomte is unconditionally passed by the firmware to the kernel. The good news is the firmware itself had MTE support added back to it.

It's possible to enable reserving the tag memory for MTE via fastboot oem mte on, boot a non-stock kernel ignoring arm64.nomte and use MTE. We're in the process of determining whether it's fully functional and the performance characteristics. It's likely disabled due to performance being ruined.

We expect performance must be quite bad for Google to have decided to entirely strip out support for it in not only the software but also the firmware so that no would could even try to use it before Android 17 QPR2 Beta 4. That's a very strange thing to do. It's at least added back to firmware now.

We reached out to multiple people at Google asking about the MTE situation on the Pixel 11 prior to making our original thread and didn't receive any responses. We still don't know what's wrong with MTE on the Pixel 11. It isn't clear if there are serious CPU errata or it simply performs very badly.

If the issue is simply that MTE performance is poor, then we can support the Pixel 11 with the major caveat that it will be a significant performance downgrade. Aside from MTE, Google downgraded the Pixel 11 series GPU compared to the Pixel 10 series in addition to reducing RAM for base Pro models.

Google has been increasingly silent in response to our communications since dropping Pixel support from AOSP with Android 16 in June 2025. They could have told us MTE performance was significantly reduced so they disabled it at launch but will add it back to firmware for QPR2. That's still unclear.

Android 17 QPR2 Beta 4 releases for the Pixel 11 series were only uploaded around 10 hours ago rather than with the initial release on August 28th so this hasn't been available for very long. It wasn't missed by us or people who looked into it after our initial thread but rather wasn't out yet.

GrapheneOS

@Eirikr70 It's more complex than it being supported by the firmware. It isn't supported by the stable release of the firmware. We posted the announcement here directly instead of linking to it to avoid confusion.

gowowa1659

GrapheneOS Thank god. That's so good to hear.
Hope the GOS can fully support Pixel 11 without compromising any security features.

FunkTastic

GrapheneOS Would it be possible for users to choose performance over stronghold level security by arbitrarily disabling MTE?

Jsntrm

That's good news but we need indeed to wait to know the impact of a potential workaround.

I have a P9P and was really waiting for P11P to upgrade. My main issue with P9P is a very bad battery life, i'm not a heavy user but im using Dual SIM and i'm pretty convinced it's due to modem, since i have heavy idle drain.
So P10P wouldn't be so different i guess...

I understand the necessity of having MTE on every new devices supported by GOS but now we need to know what would be the impact of adding a non cache-accelerated MTE on this device, in term of raw performance AND in idle CPU usage (for battery life)

rjo12

Personally, I agree with the GOS team on this one. I prefer that they focus on supporting devices that meet their articulated requirements. Supporting a wider range of devices that "almost but not quite" meet their requirements distracts developers from their real business - providing a secure operating system that runs on devices that meet stated requirements.

I am not resentful of Google for doing this. They are doing what big businesses do - adding or removing features based on their commercial objectives. They are not making use of MTE in their Pixel OS so, presumably for cost reasons, have removed hardware and firmware support from the Pixel 11. Like it or not, people who buy a Pixel in order to install Graphene, are a negligible contributor to Google's revenue or profits - so Google is indifferent to whether their devices meet GOS requirements. Given the way they have made device trees unavailable (requiring reverse engineering effort) it is clear that, at present, their priorities lie elsewhere.

I am supportive of the GOS team working with Motorola to foster production of initial devices (and hopefully more devices in future) that support GOS. It is much more productive use of GOS developer effort to support devices from a company that willingly meets the requirements. While there is a risk that Motorola's business interests may change in future, it is appropriate use of GOS development effort to support the effort toward more secure devices now. It is certainly more productive than trying to support devices from a company that is, at best, indifferent to whether their devices meet GOS requirements - let alone devices that do not meet GOS requirements.

Personally, I will stick with my humble Pixel 8 (with all GOS-specific features for exploit protection enabled by default) for as long as it is supported. When it runs out of GOS support, I will assess devices options - and, most likely, pick a Motorola device that meets my needs best.

freshop2012

GrapheneOS Please tell me, is it worth returning the Pixel 11? I still have 7 days left to return it. Is there any hope that I'll actually be able to install GrapheneOS?

xxx

freshop2012 https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/41564-pixel-11-doesnt-meet-the-grapheneos-security-standards-and-may-be-skipped/354

I think there's still hope but I would return it.

freshop2012

xxx could you please clarify why return?

xxx

GrapheneOS MTE. We're in the process of determining whether it's fully functional and the performance characteristics. It's likely disabled due to performance being ruined.

I mean this says it all. With the 10 and 10a being cheaper.
freshop2012
But it's just my option.

kabyro

freshop2012
It was stated already multiple times in this thread

There might be no GrapheneOS at all for P11 series
If there is a release, it will be either missing MTE, or have worse performance than stock
put pressure on Google to hopefully reintroduce proper MTE in future pixel phones

de0u

freshop2012 Please tell me, is it worth returning the Pixel 11? I still have 7 days left to return it. Is there any hope that I'll actually be able to install GrapheneOS?

Clearly the team is working as hard as possible to decide what can be done, and is updating the community promptly. But if Google remains uncommunicative that slows down the process of understanding the situation. Regardless of what may eventually be possible, knowing the eventual answer now does not seem possible.

I expect that the GrapheneOS team will announce whether or not the Pixel 11 can be supported once they know whether or not the Pixel 11 can be supported, not before. That could be weeks or months out. I can't see how that decision could have a schedule.

« Previous Page Next Page »