Is Graphene the right set up for me?

littlerack

PitA is Pain in the ass.

I do travel, haven't seen in the most remote locations, but e-sim works just fine.

Whatever it is, having GOS even with your Google account you will be better off as of privacy compared to standard ios/android. Contact scopes, storage scopes, etc. On my old phone WhatsApp has sucked all my contacts as there was no way to limit it like in GOS.

BUT, if your apps are not really bound to your account, the you can be in even better shape, though there is no guarantee Google will link your old and new accounts based on behaviour etc.
Again, once you settle with a basic setup, you can plan further de-googling as you will eventually improve your understanding of balance between de-googling and old habits.

Xplet1veDeleted

littlerack Yeah I mean, I do have some apps bound to accounts, some of which I do kind of need...it varies by country how things work and what shit I need. For example, it's incredibly difficult to get around Colombia if you don't have Uber installed, I installed Uber solely to use when I go there, I never use it here but if you take a cab you'll get kidnapped, Uber is safe so you need it.

That's just one example of the unexpected things that come up and why I need some options and flexibility. If I have to sign into to google in one of my profiles so be it but my concern now is even if I do that will shit work at all? It seems some things are not supported on this phone no matter what I do, so my concern now is that I sign into google and give up the privacy and STILL dont get the functionality of a regular phone so I'm losing both.

littlerack

Xplet1veDeleted buy a used entry

Sorry, my bad. Forget about the option.

littlerack

Xplet1veDeleted What do you mean exactly by private space over separate profile?

Private space (PS) is a "nested" profile within any User profile (owner or not) that is a separated user space (apps, Contact, vpn, etc) without a drawbacks/complications of switching back and forth between profiles.
It can be used to install "risky", privacy-aggressive (you choose) apps so they don't sit along with other data. You can easily wipe PS, recreate it while having main profile kept intact.

https://support.google.com/android/answer/15341885 Google recommends it specifically for sensitive data/apps, but as gos already has good level of separation (contacts, storage, etc), it's basically any apps you want to keep separately (like business/work apps, etc).

littlerack

Xplet1veDeleted

You may want to put some order in your situation by listing apps that gives you problems and questions thats left (in order from first, like "I haven't signed up into play store yet, what ACC should I use").

As of Uber - Uber works just fine, at least for me.
As of fin apps, I thought here you said you're settled.
Re contactless payments, I'm about to test Curve pay to enable nfc payments (though I just use Revolut physical card atm for travel), so it's not a blocker and a priority.
As I like privacy more, I'm ok with sacrificing this part of usability.

littlerack

Xplet1veDeleted I sign into google and give up the privacy and STILL

That's just plain wrong.
Good luck preventing Google from accessing all your contacts, data, microphone, location, bank otps SMS, all the time on a non-gos phone.
Good luck limiting WhatsApp or any other app to suck in all your contacts if you need just one or two. All those activation SMSes that Google has granted in the past by default to apps.
And it's a small fraction of a privacy pain that comes from privileged status of core Google in regular android phone.

I'll repeat. Even if you sign in into your old Google account, you will be in a much better shape privacy - wise on GOS. You'll have to give up on few features (I've linked the post previously), but no more that that.

If you haven't yet signed into your Google account or any other - create Private Space in the Owner profile, (if you don't have inevitable ties to your old Google acc) create dumb one, use it in PS and start moving your Google-only apps. If you hit a limitation and you have to still sign-in into old acc, let it be, sign-in.
Use owner profile for your non-Google data, contacts, etc.

For example, if you use gmail and you're not yet ready to migrate to proton/tuta/mailboxorg - don't install gmail, pick up other reliable app (I've heard of fairemail) and use it in owner profile outside of PS. Strong step.

Xplet1veDeleted

littlerack Well...the very first app I tried to install wouldn't even open, so I'm starting with just figuring out how to get THAT one running. Once I've got that figured out, then I can try loading up some other ones and go from there.
And there's just like, so much information and conflicting opinions out there to sift through on how best to go about it, I have no idea what's good info and what isn't, I'm just trying random stuff and so far a lot of it's mostly not working...or maybe some of it could work, but there are so many side quests that pop up I don't know if I'll ever get to a point where it does, there's just been a whole lot of "well if you want to get this feature to work first you need to install this, and if you want that program to work then you need to download that" and that seems endless, so far I've spent most of my time on this project researching things that require 15 other steps before it will work. Nothing actually gets done, it's been a really frustrating couple of days.

But Ok I'll try to sign into google with a dummy account, I tried to do that on my laptop but it didn't work...because google recognized the device, I guess maybe? I signed up for proton and starting moving things away from gmail but that's still a work in progress and I'm still signed in there.
But I haven't done any google account stuff on this new phone so maybe it will let me through? Google would recognize my network, so I'd have to sign out of wifi and use cell data. Would it know my location? Should i do this at like a coffee shop or something?
Also what would I do about a phone number? Don't you need to give it one? And a fake recovery email? It's pretty hard to fake them out, they know everything

littlerack

Xplet1veDeleted Should i do this at like a coffee shop or something?

That's the recommended way (as per reports here) to help avoid a need to provide Google a phone number. https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/32217-how-to-create-a-google-account-without-a-phone-number for example 2FA + public wifi.

I feel your pain re 5 app stores, and indeed its very hard to build up understanding here without knowing what you need, but in fact there are just two if you speak of Google Play apps - Google play itself (recommended here, safe) and Aurora store (one I'm using without signing in with my account, wouldn't trust it the real acc) as I needed few apps from other regions a long time ago.

It's indeed simple with standard Pixel or iPhone, you get best user experience paying with your privacy. Thus it costs a lot at the beginning to change habits but keep privacy. Then it becomes easier, but still with caveats, like lack of on-device/private AI that can cooperate with the rest of phone's environment.
In my case I didn't jump waters, I kept old phone in use while figuring out how to migrate (data like contacts, apps). So it was inconvenient with two devices, but less painful.

littlerack

Xplet1veDeleted it's been a really frustrating couple of days.

It's expectedly difficult to move Google apps to the OS without Google Play.

littlerack

Xplet1veDeleted And a fake recovery email

If you're indeed strengthening your privacy, it's a multi-aspect project, and GoS is only a small portion of it, though you perceive it as such.
Email aspect involves using either in-built aliasing services, I think Proton has one, or third party, like DuckDuckGo (they claim they don't persist emails at all) or Firefox relay, or, and I'm considering and using it more and more - yopmail (using their fresh "new domain").
I think I have used duckduckgo one as a recovery in Google without a problem, though dunno if creation looks different. Good luck

littlerack

Xplet1veDeleted I will give you an example of complexity (and I don't blame anyone for it).
Let's take emails. The benefit of using 3rd party aliasing service like duckduckgo, is that you can switch email providers if you want. However, when you tell DDG your new forwarding address, at the end of the process it sends a confirmation to the old address that the setup is changed and mentions new address. Nice) It's good I've tested it beforehand, so I know I need an interim disposable address (yopmail) for this 1-minute process.

This process going more private is very time-consuming and honestly doesn't guarantee you don't make a mistake. However, I will still be better off comparing to a "state before".

Xplet1veDeleted

littlerack
Ok, thanks for the link, I'm going to try those things and see if I can an account get it going.
Just want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row before I do it, I imagine I'm probably only going to get one shot, right? If it doesn't work then google would have the hardware identifiers of my phone, so would it be flagged? Or would I still be able to try again later?

Anyway, I'll take my whole set up to a coffee shop and connect to the wifi, no vpn, try to route the 2FA through proton password manager, I have a dummy email account to offer...and I'm doing this all on the phone, right? Because google alright has my laptop info. Is there anything I'm missing?
Also where should I get google play from? I think when I tried this before it came from the built in GrapheneOS app store, and I think it said "mirror" under the icon, not really sure what that meant but anyway nothing worked when I tried to download and open apps.

Couple thoughts on if this doesn't work...if I need to just suck it up and sign into google in one profile so be it. Do I need MicroG? Or just a signed in google account? I'm not fully clear on what microG is exactly and there seems to be a lot of differing opinions on whether it's good or bad, or even necessary.
Also, another project i'm still kind of tinkering with - one user recommended I try creating a VPS, setting up a browser on it and seeing if I could create a brand new gmail account that way with my hardware and network info totally hidden. I'm giving it a shot just for the hell of it to see if I can figure it out, but would it work? I bought one and set it up but now I need to wipe the OS and start over as the OS it comes with apparently doesn't support the software I need to access it (which seems like a serious design flaw but whatever), so it's still a work in progress.

And I mean like...I hate to keep harping on this, but everyone's SURE i don't need a phone number? It's so hard to picture google not demanding every bit of info it can extract out of everyone. I thought about going to boost mobile and picking up a burner sim for a day just for this task, then going into settings later and routing the 2FA through an authenticator and ditching the sim. Would THAT work?
It's so goddamn maddening trying to figure out this simple ass thing.

dhhdjbd

I am not a fan of having a third party aliasing servcie, since they can read all your emails (if they are not encrypted end-to-end, which are essentailly all emails for nomal users), and furthermore they essentially could at any point just pretend to be you and overtake your accounts and more. (Having access to the email of an account can mean having full access)
Sure they say they do not, but i feel like the benefit is not worth the risk.

littlerack

dhhdjbd the benefit is not worth the risk

I like that Google doesn't know my new email provider.
It would not bepossible if I would use the one from proton.
Though I do create new accounts instead of reusing old ones, but it's not always possible/convenient.

So it's "not worth it" for you, not for me. Duckduckgo seems a "reputable"))) one with no persistance and I already use it for less invasive AI.
Also I enjoy the flexibility that I can slowly migrate to an alias and then decide on an email provider.

littlerack

Xplet1veDeleted Do I need MicroG? Or just a signed in google account? I'm not fully clear on what microG is exactly and there seems to be a lot of differing opinions on whether it's good or bad, or even necessary.

There is no MicroG on GOS. GOS brings you Play services and Play Store in GOS inbuilt appstore (as well as Android Auto if you need one). Install them if you don't want to getting another topic of thinking if it's ok to use Aurora store or alike (not generally recomended here)

littlerack

Xplet1veDeleted And I mean like...I hate to keep harping on this, but everyone's SURE i don't need a phone number? It's so hard to picture google not demanding every bit of info it can extract out of everyone. I thought about going to boost mobile and picking up a burner sim for a day just for this task, then going into settings later and routing the 2FA through an authenticator and ditching the sim. Would THAT work?
It's so goddamn maddening trying to figure out this simple ass thing.

Sorry, don't have practical experience to share. However, based on what I've read here, buying real burning-sim may be an easier path (if its easy to get), especially if you insert it I to any dumbphone. Could be More reliable than renting a number from smspool, I assume.

littlerack

Xplet1veDeleted If it doesn't work then google would have the hardware identifiers of my phone, so would it be flagged? Or would I still be able to try again later?

Don't know, sorry, personally I don't do anything with Google apps registration till https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/issues/2314 is released (Require user permission to access Media DRM ID, tnx @de0u and devs), now there is some progress but I wouldn't bother anyone for eta

Johnnyloans

About google getting all of your info:

I think most apps for ordering food, uber, parking, etc take your card info inside the app. So if you pay uber, uber will have your card info. There isnt a danger in putting payment info into the uber app on your phone. Google isn't a magical force on your phone inspecting apps for what you type, look at, or what card info you entered into the app.

Apps can lean on google play services for functionality but that doesnt necessarily mean google is getting any sensitive info. Apps aren't sharing everything youre doing on the app with google..

Many users report apps are working after theyre installed then they delete google play services and the app store. My point is: these apps and info youre worried about could be keeping your info away from google play services this entire time. I wouldn't recommend uninstalling google play services.

I agree with the other comment about don't sweat it so much. You can't get it perfect.

Private space is a faster method than a separate profile. And if an app isnt working, hold your finger down on the apps icon > tap the letter i > exploit compatibility mode = on

Xplet1veDeleted no idea which of the 5 app stores i have now to install it

Every organization that says to get our app will be on the google play store. (Or apple app store)

Xplet1veDeleted getting this phone and having to download all this google shit anyway to just to make it baseline functional does seem like it defeats the point a bit.

It isnt all or nothing. 20%, 50%, 80% is better than 0%.
Plenty of GOS users aren't anti google. They enjoy the control over their device.

phone number on google

Some people have found methods where google never asks for a phone number when creating an account.

You may run into a parking or bank app etc that won't work and you'll have to decide for yourself how important that app working is and possibly switch OSes.

littlerack

Johnnyloans Private space is a faster method than a separate profile.

@Xplet1veDeleted, Just a reminder, unless I'm wrong, apps in PS can't access phone/SMS, so depending on the app it may be or may not be an issue.

Xplet1veDeleted

Johnnyloans
Google magically getting access to my payment info or seeing exactly what I'm doing in every app wasn't my concern, I know they can't do that (yet). I just wanted google off my phone in general if possible; if that's not possible (and it seems not if I want some of the apps I need to actually work) I would prefer to use a dummy account over my real one if I can manage to set one up...and if that fails, then whatever i'll just suck it up and sign into google on that sandbox and live with it. The only reason I keep bringing payment stuff is because I want all my apps that have any kind of financial info segregated into their own profile; that's nothing to do with google, it's for personal security. But google is required to make a lot of those things work, so...that secret profile with access to my money will also incidentally be the one that has google play, as well as whatever other apps require google to work.

I've already run into an app that apparently needs google to work, the very first credit card app I tried to put on there wouldn't load. So I guess I need it.

userofgos

littlerack another related reminder, alternative SMS/MMS apps don't function fully in User Profiles when set as the Default SMS/MMS app :)

Xplet1veDeleted

littlerack
Still just a little bit confused about the private space thing, versus a whole new profile...It's embedded within the owner profile? And accessible just by a tap? And whatever's in there still can't get access to any of the rest of the phone, the PS still serves as an effective sandbox?
Probably still won't use it for my finance stuff, I don't want that accessible with just a tap, I actually want that to be hard to reach...but could be a solid, more convenient solution to bullshit I don't want contaminate the rest of my phone, i.e. social media or youtube or whatever.
So do I have that right? Is that how it works? How do you set it up, is it a function built into graphene or do I need another app/extension?

littlerack

userofgos alternative SMS/MMS apps don't function fully in User Profiles when set as the Default SMS/MMS app

Thank you.

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