Seeking advice. Thinking about moving away from GrapheneOS to iOS.

Makalratlor

Now to be clear. I am by no means intending to badmouth GrapheneOS. This is easily one of the hands down best Operating Systems I have used and it truly deserves all the praise it gets it is some of the most wonderful craft I have ever seen.

However I am starting to wonder if this OS is right for me long term. I have been sitting with it for 2 years so far and honestly I don't have many complaints at all. It comes exactly as described an OS that puts Privacy, Security and Transparency at the core front of everything it does.

However. With time I have started considering my actual threat model and also my usage of this OS.

Now I'm not trying to downplay the importance of security I think it is extremely important even without a proper threat model or compromise.

But me getting this phone wasn't just for security. It was to get more and more away from Google. I absolutely despise Google I have a special burning point of hatred in my mind for them. However Android is Systematically based around them but not in the literal sense.

What I mean by that is. Is for most apps to work and to have a half decent experience you have to install the Play Store and GMS. The problem here is that GMS is literally the core of most of Google's Services and functions. Talk about a conflict of interest..

My main goal is to cut Google off as much as possible. But due to how involved they are in android at this point cause of GMS often times I HAVE to keep GMS installed just to enjoy my device...

Which while on GrapheneOS this is still definitely better and a objective improvement from stock thanks to pretty much all of the bad Google stuff being ripped out or entirely disabled.
Having to deal with GMS. Is a lot of effort. Especially considering I have NEVER. Had good experiences with Google even on stock! Every single experience has been horrid even today. This isn't a GrapheneOS problem this is just Google overall being the crappy company it always has been.

And that's again why I got GrapheneOS cause I wanted my Freedom while retaining Security while also further distancing myself from a company I HATE.

And this whole thing has been quite draining. Having all of these back and fourths over and over again with Google. I am really tired of this all.

But as time as went on I realized that.

Freedom while is important to uphold really is not benefitting me like it used to. Most of my apps I use on GrapheneOS daily either are available on iOS, have suitable alternatives OR were not that important for me to go without.
Security. While I know GrapheneOS is much more Secure than iOS AFAIK iOS would be secure enough to fit my relatively low Threat model especially with some hardening practices.
This is the most important part. iOS is not under Google's control much at all. I know there are some things like Google being the default search engine but the fact of the matter is it's not much of Google at all. And yes I know Apple is another big not so great company. But I would pick Apple over Google anyday and back to the big issue I am having I am still practically forced to bend the knee to Google for even the smallest things on GrapheneOS... And you could probably argue like why not just deal with it and benefit from the better security and privacy and freedom? Well. I simply don't want to. Google is easily and always has been one of the WORST parts of my digital life. And I would do something as extreme as flocking to iOS just to get more distance from them. I know I can't be entirely free from them that's literally impossible especially due to things like embedded trackers. But I don't want to just go down without that fight.

So I guess what I am trying to ask is what do you all think given my reasons I have laid out here. Any advice? Any tips or tricks? I am for the most part pretty bent on doing this already but I wanted to know what the community thinks.

Some extra notes.

Again I do not seek to undermine just how Good GrapheneOS is the Sandboxed GMS is absolutely phenomenal aswell. This is mostly driven by personal preference and my hate for a company and should not be interpreted as any kind of attack or downplaying of the abilities of this OS
Please do not bother about mentioning whatever Google integrated things iOS has by default. Again I just want to distance myself even more it doesn't have to be no Google that's literally impossible. I just hate GMS so much.
Please don't bother mentioning every single flaw iOS has unless it's for a piece of advice and is meant to be genuinely helpful and informative in what I want to do going further.
I do still intend to keep my GrapheneOS Google Pixel 8 Pro on me. I don't plan to get rid of it all I plan to still use it as a fallback for anything I would rather entrust GrapheneOS to whether or not it's technically feasible to do it on iOS or not. Likewise Since I can then use Apple Services thanks to iOS I can remove GMS from my GrapheneOS device since all of that effort can be delegated to iOS.

Thank you for reading I put a lot into typing this all. I have no clue what kind of reactions I will recieve I just hope that bottom line they are helpful and informative.

Regardless. Cheers everyone and I hope you are all having a fantastic day. And if not. I hope it improves and gets better.

userofgos

Makalratlor Makalratlor As a previous iPhone user and avid Macbook user I understand your sentiment. The Google ecosystem is more in your face, and when you switch to any alternative Android OS like GrapheneOS, you begin to see how intertwined and interconnected it is - and how difficult it is to remove yourself from it. However, the Apple ecosystem appears less intrusive and in your face on the outside, when it is still just as intertwined and interconnected as Google - but you don't really notice it to the same degree. So I can see how that can be a barrier and frustration for you.

Ultimately it's up to you and your needs. I would suggest switching your daily use phone to iPhone, and keep your Pixel 8 Pro with GrapheneOS to for uses that requires a higher threat model such as e2e encrypted messaging apps like Signal, or for offline navigation, or storing private information, etc.

fernlike

Hey it's your life mate, use the device that best fits your needs. As long as you're aware that you are giving up privacy for convenience, relax and enjoy. I've taken steps backwards and forwards in my privacy-security journey several times. The goal is to find the setup that works for you and your needs. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Besides, Grapheneos will still be here if you change your mind in the future.

simplenot

I know how you feel. I've used GOS for several years and in 2023 I jumped to iPhone for the same reasons that you wrote. Did it solve the problem and did I feel peace? No.

I did get more convenience on iOS but I still had that little bug scratching in my mind that Apple is just like Google but it looks better on the outside. And also, even though people like to highlight how iOS is simple and easy and fast - it was not for me. It's a closed ecosystem that is limited in features (unless you have all other Apple gadgets and a MacBook) and the amount of bugs that I experienced was horrible.

I survived using it for 2 years. Two long years where I figured that I can't stand Apple or any of their products because its their way or the highway, with only profit in sight and not the customer. So in the end, that little bug on my mind broke the surface and I've switched back to GOS....and man, am I happy!

I gladly sacrifice some convenience for peace of mind and added security, privacy and freedom. You have Google and Apple - both fully in control... and here you have yourself and the freedom to use your phone as everyone should.

Have a thought on what you really want and just do it. Good luck!

starglider

I think your reasoning is totally understandable and wouldn't argue with you. But here's a perspective of someone who just came over from Apple, because I have about as much contempt for them as you do for Google. Specifically, they're basically an arm of the Chinese Communist Party at this point. Public AirDrop turns off after 10 minutes because protestors in China were using it. Viewing the Taiwanese flag emoji instantly crashes your phone if your region is set to China. I read Apple in China and was just completely disgusted by the company. They didn't just sell out their users; they sold out America. They spy on you just as much as Google does (TOU between the two are all but identical), just for their own ends and not marketers' ends. Apple jams in ads all over the OS in insane places; I got ads for F1 The Movie in the wallet app, and you will never, ever, get the Settings app to stop nagging you to sign up for more iCloud storage, Apple Arcade, Apple TV, AppleCare, and whatever other SaaS product they dream up.

At least Google had the class to leave China after they tried to hack them. But, also, everything you say about Google is 100% true as well.

I think after a few years on GOS (or any Android derivative), you'll probably find the total lack of customization on iOS frustrating, but possibly offset by the other benefits you list.

Just be aware that you really need to be all in to Apple's ecosystem, because they're profoundly allergic to interoperability. I have Bose headphones, for example, and they constantly unpair and cause problems on iOS, while they just work perfectly on GOS (Apple's solution is, naturally, "buy Airpods"). SMB support in the iOS Files app is a sad joke, and often an entire device restart is required to get it functional again.

Overall, I'd say that the experience of the OS itself is far superior on Android/GOS but that apps themselves tend to be more polished on iOS. Android design and functionality in apps often seems like an afterthought. I'm trying to get away from apps these days and PWA almost everything I can, but there are still some apps I love/need, and generally, they're just not quite as nice on Android.

Especially if you have a physical SIM, it's easy enough just to swap back and forth and see what you like best. Probably good to give each OS a chance every few years. I remember leaving Android in the early days because it felt like the Windows 3.0 of mobile, and now coming back to it after a decade, it's a totally different experience.

userofgos

starglider get the Settings app to stop nagging you to sign up for more iCloud storage, Apple Arcade, Apple TV, AppleCare

Yeah this was a major annoyance for me

Hat

To potentially eliminate the need for GMS in the future, the GrapheneOS app store would need to open up to app developers and offer paid apps. This could generate income and serve as a showcase for the project. (There was hope with the Accrescent app, but it has stalled...)

If you think you'll be happier with an iPhone, you're in luck. Apple's app for migrating Android data to iOS is better than Google's. Personally I don't think I will switch back to iPhone because switching to Android was a pain. And I never received a response from them regarding the bugs, the malicious email that was sent on their behalf, or the scam app in their app store.

Makalratlor

Thank you all for your valuable insights and information! I feel a lot more confident in trying it. I mean I already did but this helps a lot.

After thinking about it I will firstly definitely need to try one hands on first before I can come to a complete conclusion but I have a idea on how to do that comfortably for myself.

For now I will go for a iPad instead of a iPhone. This should be a much more comfortable way of testing the waters and seeing how I feel. The logic here is that

I've been needing a secondary easy to use portable device (preferably with a bigger screen) with a lot of storage for a while now. I was thinking about originally getting the Pixel Tablet but I think I would rather Google just make a new one and then just get that one.
Since the iPad (even if I end up not liking it) can fit this role basically perfectly it will give me the ability to test the experience out while also still fulfilling the purpose of this extra device so provided I don't like it (even though I am fairly convinced I will prefer it but only time will tell) it still will have not been a waste cause the device can still perform the function that I needed it to.
Doing it this way would still allow me to focus on GrapheneOS for now while also still allowing me to completely be rid of GMS similar to what I said earlier as I can just shift the work to the other device.

I say for now because if I like the experience enough I might let GrapheneOS take a backseat and get a iPhone still. But again I won't get rid of it because I would rather have it there just in case due to the uncertainties of the political landscape.

Thanks again!!

mmobder

One of the benefits of such changes, is that it gives you a chance to reduce amount of apps in use and helps to chose platform-agnostic ones with their own sync so you can go back and forth if needed.

Makalratlor

mmobder

Precisely! This is the general goal I have in mind. I know iOS isn't great I actually made this post completely with the knowledge and mindset that GrapheneOS is pretty much superior in most ways. (Only thing it really loses out on is convenience and in some cases performance though performance is more of a general Android problem rather than a GrapheneOS problem)

But I really cannot stand Google for the life of me.. Knocking off GMS would be a massive win for me (even though i am just exchanging it for Apple...)

But yes in regards to a lot of the apps and services I use I am actually very careful as to try and avoid device/vendor lock-in as much as possible so a lot of my services compatible sync methods or at the very least 100% usable PWAs across all major platforms! I never liked the idea of important data being difficult to access across devices..

mar2112

Maybe it's just me but when work gave me an iPhone I had a lot of difficulties doing things that are simple on Android.

For instance turning off GPS which is very easy and intuitive on Android. On the iPhone it required a web search to figure out how to perform this task and it was buried down a few layers not staring you in the face like on Android. IMO keeping GPS off when not in use is essential and not optional.

Also I find the one button to do everything very confusing.

mxb78

I actually, just recently, move FROM iOS to GOS.
why?

no control whats running in the background (what do they actually pull in from your device?)
where this data lands?

Now, efter week of using GOS, then only thing I "miss" (there are work-arounds)

NFC wallet (physical card with NFC to have around with me)
Facetime (use whatever other which support video calls)

grapheine

There are times I think about going back to iOS after 3.5 years on GOS, but I could never. The one thing alone that is a deal breaker is not being able to plug my phone into a laptop and send/receive files easily.

gta3

Apple is just as bad as google.

Don't understand the logic at all.

Your data is gold to them, used indefinitely forever

WestQuester

I was a long time Apple user that switched to GOS about 6 months ago. I was on the fence for a while, since there are definite advantages and disadvantages to both for my use case.

Security on both isn't a concern. As far as privacy, Apple has had a surprisingly good track record, with nearly everything being encrypted. I remember reading about their Maps, which collects user locations (for live traffic) but anonymizes each individual. So Apple knows where their users are, but not who they are and they aren't associated with any other data.

Conversely, when I moved to GOS I tried OSMand, OrganicMaps/CoMaps, Magic Earth. I'm a regular editor on OpenStreetMaps and it is astonishing just how poor the data is in the US. Out of probably a thousand homes within a mile of our home, maybe 4 had addresses added. I added hundreds but I can't do them all. Never mind trying to find businesses or business hours. I finally broke down and started using Google Maps: I waste way too much time without it but I hate the privacy aspect of it.

I've been a Signal user for years but Apple Messages just works with everybody with encryption enabled by default. Google Messages and RCS has been terrible for the last year and I've missed important messages that simply never showed up.

I found it very easy to cast content with my iPhone. I've never been able to do that with GOS.

I used to do tap to pay with my iPhone, I've never been able to do that with GOS.

I've had to aggressively close background apps and change battery usage restrictions because Android seems to be far worse at background app management than Apple.

Migrating to a new device is absolutely seamless on Apple. I dread having to do it on GOS, which still doesn't have a decent backup solution.

On the other hand, I can definitely appreciate the control for permissions I have on GOS. The big thing that keeps me on GOS is I self-host a lot of things and there are lots of great free apps for Android that don't exist on iPhone and I can install anything I want, not just limited to the App store. It's a great Android operating system but it's not painless. Apple is pretty painless.

Is Apple as private as they claim to be? I guess we have to trust them. Will their next CEO change things? We will see. But for now, I think if you want to move back to Apple, you don't need really need to hesitate. It's a good system.