Best way to restrict browser use in GOS?

Lucario1829

777funk according to the link I posted earlier, it goes back to the OS they shipped it with (from techless) even from Android Recovery Mode

so does graphene, the os is replaced. no factory reset changes a phones operating system

schklom

The best way I could find without needing a commercial MDM or root is:

Install OwnDroid (https://github.com/BinTianqi/OwnDroid/blob/master/Readme-en.md)
Remove all device accounts one by one listed on Settings -> Passwords, passkeys and accounts
Enable adb in the developer settings (search how to, i don't feel like explaining that)
Make OwnDroid device-owner with adb (you can remove it anytime from within OwnDroid, click the shield icon on the top-right, then the 3 dots on the top-right, then Deactivate)
```
adb shell dpm set-device-owner com.bintianqi.owndroid/.Receiver
```
(Search how to use your computer to run that adb command)
From now, you can add your accounts again if you want.
Open OwnDroid
Click Users
Click Create user
Type a username
Do not tick "Enable all system app"
Click Create. At this point, the user is created and has only the apps App Store, Contacts, Files, Settings, Telephone.

At this point, the user can still install Play Store via the App Store.
To prevent that, open your Settings -> System -> Users -> the new user -> "App installs and updates", and set to Disabled.

You're done! The new user does not have Vanadium, and cannot install any app.

You can always add apps yourself from Settings -> System -> Users -> the new user -> "App installs and updates", and set to Enabled, then back, then "Install available apps", pick something to install, then disable app installation again.

schklom

schklom Note that having a Device-owner disables having Work Profiles and Private Spaces.
Also, this will likely disable Seedvault (system) backups. To re-enable the, open OwnDroid, go to System -> Options -> Backup service (enable it).

PS: The new user doesn't have a SMS app. Add the Graphene one "Messaging" :P

777funk

n3t_admin
As far as giving a shady (I don't know enough about them to say yes or no here... nor am I security aware enough to understand from a computing standpoint) company full access to my kid's life (he's signing up for it), there's really nothing to give. There's no browser. He won't be doing any business on the phone since there's really nothing there but text, phone, and a camera. His texts will be basic day to day nonsense that doesn't mean much to anyone else as will his talk and camera. So there's not much concern here. If the company were out to take banking details, they'd need to be in the smart phone business. At least with the dumbest program they offer, there sure isn't much to scam.

If there were a way to have only these limited tools (phone, text, camera) with Graphene, I'd be all for it. But that doesn't sound like it's the case or at least I've not heard that it is.

EDIT: perhaps the post above this one has more detail there. Thank you. I have used ADB long ago when I loaded Cyanogenmod on a Samsung Galaxy S (maybe S2). I remember rooting etc being painful at that point (maybe 2011 or 12).

n3t_admin

777funk As far as giving a shady (I don't know enough about them to say yes or no here... nor am I security aware enough to understand from a computing standpoint) company full access to my kid's life (he's signing up for it), there's really nothing to give. There's no browser. He won't be doing any business on the phone since there's really nothing there but text, phone, and a camera. His texts will be basic day to day nonsense that doesn't mean much to anyone else as will his talk and camera. So there's not much concern here.

I'll make this clear one last time, since you still don't seem to understand this:
As the admin of that device they can do EVERYTHING with it. Imagine a hacker sits in your network. They can install malware, grant it all permissions. Spread it on the network. Listen to your conversations. Make pics of your children when they are n*de and share them on the dark web at any time.

If the company were out to take banking details, they'd need to be in the smart phone business. At least with the dumbest program they offer, there sure isn't much to scam.

They ARE! You get the same smartphone as anyone else! The only thing "dumb" about this phone, are their customers. There is a full Android OS with a rootkit running below the interface of the launcher.

I'll explain it, in really simple terms:
The phone, when you start it, is a normal Samsung phone. There is nothing else installed on it, except a device policy to check for enrollment.
When you start it, you MUST connect it to the internet (pretty much the opposite of any dumb phone), because it has to load and enable all the crap from Wisephone's MDM server. Once that connection happens, it starts the process by limiting your access to the software, while giving them full access over it.
Congratulations, you now have an overpriced bug in your house.

If this still doesn't convince you, I give up.
Btw: if you ever miss a payment, they will just turn the phone into a brick, just warning you now before you spend thousands of dollars on it.

An honest company (and not a scamming one), would just use existing hardware and install a different OS on it (like others do), where the changes are made at an OS level and not enrolled in someone's MDM.
The fact they chose this route, clearly shows they don't have good intentions.

And before you say it: you also have to trust them to not mishandle their MDM access. If they leak the keys for some reason (like not taking security seriously), the new owners of those keys will also have full access to every single Wisephone out there. That'll be fun!

raccoondad

777funk there's really nothing to give. There's no browser. He won't be doing any business on the phone since there's really nothing there but text, phone, and a camera. His texts will be basic day to day nonsense that doesn't mean much to anyone else as will his talk and camera. So there's not much concern here.

I been holding my tounge but I find it concerning you would compromise a device like that for your child if they are at the age where they need a cellphone in the first place... You may not know everything about your child's life, especially as they get older, I wouldn't really risk personal information getting out like that especially if this is going to be long term.

There is more I could say, but I find the entire thread very concerning. I'll hold off on details and zip my mouth, but I'll be the one to at least mention it.

777funk

schklom

Thank you! Sounds like one person's good workable solution. I appreciate this.

777funk

n3t_admin
Ok thanks. I never claimed to know anything about MDMs or network security. So thank you for your input there.

As far as inappropriate pictures... that's not going to happen. They'll never access that because it's not there. Maybe a picture of someone holding up a largemouth bass. Maybe someone playing pickleball. Maybe a group of friends or family. Personally, I couldn't care less if that's out there.

Another topic for another day, but I don't believe that anything on a phone is private, even with stock Android. The right people (hackers, Govts, big tech, etc) are able to access all of this same stuff and more. I won't be convinced otherwise.

n3t_admin

777funk As far as inappropriate pictures... that's not going to happen. They'll never access that because it's not there. Maybe a picture of someone holding up a largemouth bass. Maybe someone playing pickleball. Maybe a group of friends or family. Personally, I couldn't care less if that's out there.

As device owners they can simply install an app that will launch the camera and start taking pictures. As I said, they can do everything with that phone. I mean LITERALLY everything you could as well. The only way to prevent that, would be to physically remove the cameras and microphones from the hardware.

n3t_admin

777funk The right people (hackers, Govts, big tech, etc) are able to access all of this same stuff and more. I won't be convinced otherwise.

They can't and it would be extremely difficult to exploit a system in a way that would grant adversaries the same rights as an MDM admin.

777funk

n3t_admin
Apple seems to pride themselves in not letting the govt into a bad guy's phone. But I don't believe it. Maybe...

But I don't buy it that govts can't gain access to data on phones. Why is the US govt so intertwined with Google, FB, and the like? It's not because they want higher ranks in search engines or to have help posting a new FB profile picture for letter agencies.

LeslieFH

n3t_admin Everyone can just boot into recovery mode and factory reset the phone without any passwords whatsoever.
What you are suggesting, is security theater and is actively discouraged by the dev team.

It is not "security theater".

Security is not "protecting only against the movie-scale threats". Securing a child's phone against breaching of time limits with a password is rather effective, because while the child can boot into recovery mode and factory reset the phone, they can't do this covertly, this is an irreversible action and clear breach of previous settings and of the agreement with the parents.

The problem is, GOS developers don't have the resources to provide child-appropriate phones, where security against the child's attempts to gain more screen time requires different approach then security against NSA trying to get at your files.

(Well, it's either that or they're just not interested)

n3t_admin

LeslieFH Securing a child's phone against breaching of time limits with a password is rather effective, because while the child can boot into recovery mode and factory reset the phone, they can't do this covertly

And resetting it from inside the OS is? I'd really like to know the difference.

LeslieFH

n3t_admin And resetting it from inside the OS is? I'd really like to know the difference.

The point is not that "GrapheneOS should be protected against factory resetting from inside the phone", the discussion is about "how to achieve family control in GrapheneOS", and the answer is: the devs don't think it's important, so you can't, because "family control won't protect you against a competent computer-skilled adversary".

What you're now doing is redirecting the discussion to minutiae of the response by the OP, who's clearly not very knowledgeable about OSes, but the gist remains the same: "family control won't resist a determined attacker with hacker skills, so it's not worth doing at all". Which is a pity, because not everybody uses GOS to be secure against the NSA, GOS is great for having a degoogled phone, and it would be really nice for children to be able to have a degoogled phone too. But apparently this is not a valuable use case to spend limited dev resources on. Sad.

(It would be rather easy to have user profiles with limited admin rights that could be controlled by the owner profile, but Graphene does not allow logging into secondary profiles with the owner locked, say, after restart; changing itwould indeed require devoting probably significant coding time to introduce changes that would enable effective parental controls on a GOS phone, so I understand that devs may not prioritise that, especially if they're not parents, but on this forums, I don't see a lot of "family controls would be nice, but we just don't have the resources" and I do see "family controls are pointless against NSA-level hacking" :-)))

n3t_admin

777funk But I don't buy it that govts can't gain access to data on phones.

Uhh yeah, they can't. Of what use would it be if they'd blew this secret on the first court hearing? Besides, why do you think that NSO Group (Pegasus), Palantir or Cellebrite have such a flourishing business?
The exploits governments do possess are used sparingly by intelligence agencies on high value targets, in personalized attacks, not some Joe Schmoe sitting in his basement. Bulk data collection was from a time when encryption didn't really exist in mainstream applications, nowadays it's a lot harder.

777funk Why is the US govt so intertwined with Google, FB, and the like? It's not because they want higher ranks in search engines or to have help posting a new FB profile picture for letter agencies.

Because these companies run big parts of the internet infrastructure, which means political and economical control. Guess what? Governments are interested in that.

Paranoia is getting us nowhere, as well as speculating about potential backdoors in our devices.

I'm ending the off topic here.

777funk

n3t_admin
Fair enough. My opinion and yours.

n3t_admin

LeslieFH Okay, now you are tripping.

LeslieFH the discussion is about "how to achieve family control in GrapheneOS", and the answer is: the devs don't think it's important, so you can't, because "family control won't protect you against a competent computer-skilled adversary"

Did you make this up? Please cite the source where anyone from the project said anything remotely like this. I'll be waiting.

LeslieFH the gist remains the same: "family control won't resist a determined attacker with hacker skills, so it's not worth doing at all".

again - where do you get this? Maybe I missed some posts - I don't see anything said like this. The only thing was OP asking about factory reset protection (not Android FRP) via passcode in the settings, to which I said that it doesn't change anything.

LeslieFH Which is a pity, because not everybody uses GOS to be secure against the NSA, GOS is great for having a degoogled phone, and it would be really nice for children to be able to have a degoogled phone too. But apparently this is not a valuable use case to spend limited dev resources on. Sad.

You believe GrapheneOS is good for degoogling? It is neither in the interest of the project, nor any proclaimed goal to "degoogle". It's just a side effect that comes with the way the OS works. The project even recommends to use the Play Store as your main source for apps. If your main goal is to degoogle - go ahead. But that is not the main focus of GrapheneOS.

And while we're at it, the limited resources the dev team has, are spent on life saving measures, so that journalists, whistleblowers, victims of organized crime and many more can live to see another day. You call it "sad" that the team will spend valuable time improving the security of vulnerable people instead of implementing parenting tools? I believe it's sad you think that way.

LeslieFH It would be rather easy to have user profiles with limited admin rights that could be controlled by the owner profile

How many times have I heard this word. "Easy", yeah everything is just so easy, right? If it's so easy - go ahead and contribute AND maintain the code. The people saying this haven't written a single line of code in their life but are the first to determine what is and isn't easy.

LeslieFH changing itwould indeed require devoting probably significant coding time to introduce changes that would enable effective parental controls on a GOS phone, so I understand that devs may not prioritise that

At least you acknowledge that... and if you read two paragraphs above, you'll hopefully understand why it's more important to build the single most secure mobile OS possible instead of whatever you suggested.

LeslieFH "family controls are pointless against NSA-level hacking"

It's a security focused OS. It never claimed to be a "mainstream OS ready for mass adoption". If you don't care about security, like OP, who is happy do get hacked in exchange for controlling their kids' phones, GrapheneOS is probably a hassle not worth your time and money.

If you look at the off-topic threads here (you can filter by tag), what do you see? Discussions about security topics or parenting controls? Exactly.

777funk

DeletedUser495
I replied on the other thread. If all is ok with that bit of code (I'm in the middle of looking at the source), that application does exactly what I'm hoping to do.

Fay_Wilmont

This thread was an educational read, thanks all!

777funk I would like the phones we hand out to our children to be near impossible for them to access the internet

I once gifted an old tablet to a friend to be used as an offline music player. Since he is averse to wireless signals he asked me if I could permanently disable wifi on it. My notes tell me I did this by commenting out the line wifi.interface=wlan0 in the file /system/build.prop. This was on Android 10 I think, and must have required root access (but since it was running LineageOS that was provided out-of-the-box).

I wonder if something similar can be done with a phone, permanently disabling not just wifi but also mobile data, but leaving intact the functionality for phone calls and texting. Doing this with official GrapheneOS, you'd have to temporarily root it to make the necessary edits. Or make your own build.

777funk

Fay_Wilmont
This seems like a smart idea. It would only address wifi I assume and leave mobile data working. I would also need to kill mobile data.

When I first started down this road, I physically removed the antennas and maybe modem... Been a while. That worked. But now we need this phone to actually function as a phone. So electronics modifications won't be a great way this time.

« Previous Page Next Page »