Eu revives chat control, ways to navigate it if this happens?

GraphicGraph

Chat control hasn’t been confirmed yet, France and Germany are still undecided and the vote will take place in October, but that’s not the point, we need to prepare for the worst, if this chat control does happen, how will graphene os navigate this? I noticed they wanted to scan apps like WhatsApp and signal, but what really concerned me was the discussion of device or os level scanning

[deleted]

I think it's too early to tell how chat control would be implemented. Signal, WhatsApp, Apple, other organizations have said they would rather leave than comply. It might become more difficult to install/update "illegal" apps, especially on iOS. I'd be surprised if they require OS scanning, since that's completely impractical.

The best thing you can do right now is to tell other people about this. If more people know about this, more people will oppose it and circumvent it. Hopefully we can prevent chat control completely.

grayway2

GraphicGraph Don't worry. Even if the law is adopted, Whatsapp or Telegram will shut down its services for Europeans.

People without WhatsApp or Viber will become very angry and in the end the law will be cancelled.

OS level scanning is very unlikely even on Windows, iOS or StockOS. It's like making war with citizens.

DeletedUser713

cupcake-alibi they would rather leave than comply

Is this "I will move to Canada" 2.0? No, of course they will not leave. They will comply, like they always did. See Apple in UK. China. EU. It's the same with all the other companies: they can't afford to lose the EU as a market, so they will do whatever is necessary; even if it constitutes malicious compliance. But they will not leave.

grayway2 People without WhatsApp or Viber will become very angry and in the end the law will be cancelled.

You don't really believe that, do you? The time of violent revolutions is over. Legislators don't give a f*** if people are angry. Soon enough, the media will find some other scapegoat everyone can be mad about and everyone will forget what they were mad about just a few weeks ago, especially if there is no visible change for the end-user.

schweizer

I can imagine that it will make E2E more inconvenient but not impossible. You can even now send PGP encrypted messages or encrypted ZIP-files over Whatsapp Signal and Threema. Someone would probably write an app to streamline the process like Boxcryptor does for MS Onedrive.

What frightens me is that EU lawmakers do not understand that if they grant their own police such a backdoor the police of countries like Iran, China, Saudiarabia or Russia will also get it. Putting the lives of regime critics and LGBTQ at risk.

DeletedUser713

schweizer I can imagine that it will make E2E more inconvenient but not impossible.

That 100% depends on the implementation. As of right now, I am not aware of the technical implementation planned for chat control. If implemented at the OS level (by Apple and Google), which I find WAY more likely than trying to pressure a bazillion different developers into this, it won't really matter which app you use. Every app can just go on a list and be scanned on the OS level, just like a rootkit.

schweizer What frightens me is that EU lawmakers do not understand that if they grant their own police such a backdoor the police of countries like Iran, China, Saudiarabia or Russia will also get it. Putting the lives of regime critics and LGBTQ at risk.

They do get it. They still don't care, sadly.

schweizer

DeletedUser713 Every app can just go on a list and be scanned on the OS level, just like a rootkit.

That does not work.

It would just force people to build GOS on their own. Commenting out the libraries that contain the backdoor.
How would you prevent someone to send an encrypted file?

DeletedUser713

schweizer It would just force people to build GOS on their own. Commenting out the libraries that contain the backdoor.

that assumes GrapheneOS even exists in the EU by that time. Your argument has the same logic, as app-framework implementation: every open-source app could be forked and remove the libraries. Then what?

Wdym "send an encrypted file"? Every messenger out there decrypts contents once they arrive on device. If you actually mean an encrypted file containing information/messages - what has that to do with chat control? It's the same situation right now with email, file sharing sites, etc.

grayway2

DeletedUser713 Do you know how much people rely on apps from Meta (WhatsApp, Facebook messenger, instagram) or Telegram to communicate with the rest of the world ?

I can imagine that new apps compliant with ChatControl will enter in the game and take the control of the market but not before months.

Now if people really just shut up during this time and continue to live as usually then it's really the end for user-friendly end-to-end communication apps, Privacy will become a complicated game and they will not stop until they will find a solution to scan our brains.

newbie24689

https://www.techradar.com/computing/cyber-security/the-eu-could-be-scanning-your-chats-by-october-2025-heres-everything-we-know

Sigh....This is really sad! How soon 'til all windows and doors must be permanently open - thereby facilitating "scanning" for badness by state minders?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

DeletedUser713

grayway2 Do you know how much people rely on apps from Meta (WhatsApp, Facebook messenger, instagram) or Telegram to communicate with the rest of the world ?

Yup.

grayway2 I can imagine that new apps compliant with ChatControl will enter in the game and take the control of the market but not before months.

That is not gonna happen. Why? Because the apps you mentioned above won't leave the market. They will comply. This has been proven time and time again.

grayway2 Now if people really just shut up during this time and continue to live as usually then it's really the end for user-friendly end-to-end communication apps, Privacy will become a complicated game and they will not stop until they will find a solution to scan our brains.

Of course people will shut up. They always did - that's how human psychology works.

I don't know what kind of hopes you all have, and I hate to break it to you, but nothing is gonna happen. The ones causing the uproar are a small minority that will fade into oblivion once the news cycle gets past them.
You never even had a chance.

Eirikr70

YAASR

Stewart

The reality is that if the law passes, no one will say anything and everyone will accept it without flinching because people have 'nothing to hide' and this law serves to protect 'children', a good cause.
Apart from Signal, which will surely leave the European market, Whatsapp, Matrix, Telegram, Imessage and others will have no problem complying with European requirements, that's a fact.

grayway2

DeletedUser713 I want to believe that Europe will not become China and we will not have WeChat clones on every messaging apps.

I have hope that a company like Meta will not comply until the end with the authorities even if I know that they're only interested by the profit they make.

Now, if What you said become the reality and they'll cooperate then build me a rocket and find me a new planet.

grayway2

Stewart Always the children and the terrorists..

Apple has already proved in the past that they can fight as long as necessary with the governments so there might be a chance.

Signal and Threema will not comply at all but Meta and other giant messaging apps like Telegram and Viber needs to be part of the game.

DeletedUser713

grayway2 I want to believe that Europe will not become China and we will not have WeChat clones on every messaging apps.

We're slowly getting there, no worries.

grayway2 I have hope that a company like Meta will not comply until the end with the authorities even if I know that they're only interested by the profit they make.

This sentence could also start with "I have a dream". Looking at the reality, the exact opposite is going to happen. Meta is especially skilled at adapting to changing environments - like a chameleon.

Pure coincidence that it happens to be run by a lizard. ;)

(That last sentence was a joke btw)

grayway2 Apple has already proved in the past that they can fight as long as necessary with the governments so there might be a chance.

Fight what exactly? Apple is king of compliance. If you have the iPhone 5C backdoor incident in mind, that's not really relevant. Apple gave the FBI the middle finger, since they don't really have any authoritative power. They always complied with agencies tho.

DeletedUser495

Could anyone comment on this? From 27:15 couple of minutes on.

https://closednetwork.io/podcast/episode-46-not-perfect-but-good-enough-be-your-own-algorithm/

I mean not completely related, but who needs to implement chat control when on stock it can already peek into your private conversations using AI.

Probably9857

DeletedUser495

Assuming that is true (have not listened, but seems plausible that Google could already do that)...

Anyway, I think the answer to your question is that politicians don't want to have to rely on voluntary cooperation from Google, Apple, etc.

They want to demand access, and threaten with fines or imprisonment if their demands are not granted.

dhhdjbd

schweizer What frightens me is that EU lawmakers do not understand that if they grant their own police such a backdoor the police of countries like Iran, China, Saudiarabia or Russia will also get it. Putting the lives of regime critics and LGBTQ at risk.

they are at risk in the eu aswell, i mean did not italy just recently use some kind of advanced maleware on these guys that rescue refugees on open sea

GraphicGraph

Good news, Germany has just pushed back against chat control https://x.com/pirat_nation/status/1953471443993333779?s=46