Storage Scopes Sandboxing WhatsApp Facebook etc

GI1

With the new Storage Scopes, the fact that each
app is also sandboxed and Grapheneos does not
allow apps to access any of the phone information… what is the harm in installing apps like WhatsApp, Facebook on the main profile?

Surely if you adjust the permissions you can use
them fairly safely?

WhatsApp would need access to Contacts.

Am I missing something?

Unfortunately almost no one I know uses Signal yet.

unwat

GI1 Grapheneos does not allow apps to access any of the phone information

That's not necessarily true. I'd read the sections on hardware and non-hardware identifiers for info about what apps can get from the system.

GI1 Surely if you adjust the permissions you can use them fairly safely?

Agreed, for the most part. I'd wait until contact scopes before feeling comfortable with WhatsApp having access to contacts.

Many people don't like the idea of apps being able to communicate within profiles via IPC. I personally don't think that it's something worth worrying about for the most part, especially if the apps don't have access to anything sensitive.

The issue I'd have is that apps can list all installed packages within a profile. That's enough to profile someone, so I put apps that aren't great about respecting my privacy into a special profile that I literally call "evil".

mythodical

Privacy is the only downside really. Security-wise you'll be fine, but not everyone wants to share their contacts with Meta, and not everyone trusts Meta to be responsible with their chat privacy since they hold the encryption keys.

WhatsApp will also be able to see a list of all other apps installed within the same profile.

GI1

mythodical

Thank you for the reply. Okay so apps can see other apps in the same profile? I thought they where sandboxes from each other?

unwat

GI1 Okay so apps can see other apps in the same profile?

Yes

GI1 I thought they where sandboxes from each other?

All apps on Android are sandboxed. Apps have access to list other packages for interoperability, for example share a link from a social networking app with a friend via a messaging app or scan for apps that can open .pdf files.

LuckyLuke

GI1
Yes, as I learned here, apps can see what other apps are installed in the same profile. But they can't access other apps' data unless they have permission to do so.

In my opinion, you shouldn't be lulled into a false sense of privacy just because you split your apps into different profiles. If you use the same Internet connections constantly with both profiles, it's not hard to figure out that both profiles belong to the same user. To avoid fingerprinting, you have to put in a significant extra effort.

MetropleX

The responses you've received here are erudite and concise, however while you can't really have privacy without security, having security does not automatically equal being private.

GrapheneOS gives you the tools to enable control of your own privacy. However privacy is only ever as good as the user makes it through their decisions of what is installed/where it is installed and the caveats of that as outlined above, what permissions you grant, and ultimately the information you provide to them.

Remember what works for one person regards their view on privacy and the resulting setup they employ won't always match your own, based on your perceptions or threat modelling.

Hope this helps add a little to the discussion for you.

GI1

Thank you for the replies.

So privacy I am giving away is access to my Contacts and a list of the apps installed in the profile?

Is there anything else I should be aware of?

I’m surprised that with the sandbox you can not choose which apps can be seen instead of your entire list. If you want to copy a file etc why not just give permission to that one app or use a type of clipboard in between?

unwat

GI1 I’m surprised that with the sandbox you can not choose which apps can be seen instead of your entire list. If you want to copy a file etc why not just give permission to that one app or use a type of clipboard in between?

I guess they haven't added that to AOSP because either Google doesn't care or it would complicate things for the common user who doesn't understand these things? Or both?

I do know from looking at the GrapheneOS issue tracker that they'd like to implement something like this. Given Android's complexity, it's not a feature that should be added without a great deal of research and planning to implement properly.

GI1

unwat do you know if iOS also shares all the apps on your phone with every app you install?

Is this only an Android issue?

unwat

GI1 do you know if iOS also shares all the apps on your phone with every app you install?

After a quick search it looks like apps cannot list other installed apps on iOS.

[deleted]

GI1
It definitely was possible in previous iOS versions and still is. Short answer is the last paragraph.

Be aware of Apple's big talk PR in interviews that is usually far from reality, for instance their speech about importance of users privacy, where they always forget to mention that Apple collaborate and make anti-privacy changes anywhere where they can make profit out of it (China, Russia).

Nevertheless, back to your question: you can at least check privacy page on apple.com, and you will see huge difference between what is commonly considered as valid and what Apple really declares:

https://www.apple.com/privacy/control/

Cit.: "Starting with iOS 14.5 and iPadOS 14.5, apps are required to ask your permission when they want to track you across apps and websites owned by other companies. You can change your preference for any app or prevent apps from asking for permission entirely in Settings."

To sum up: on iOS apps were and are able to track you across other apps, now with the newest version - if you can trust what Apple declares here - you can limit the ways apps can talk to each other.

unwat

Suppose @[deleted] has a point that there are other methods of tracking or determining what someone has installed on their phone, but from what I can tell there's no API in iOS that allows apps to list other installed apps.

I could be wrong, but I've been looking through Apple developer docs and there's nothing there, just a bunch of developer forum posts saying listing other installed apps isn't possible. The only public API that does that is an MDM API.