AOSP and Pixel Device Support

raccoondad

To quell some fear in people, from GOS on bsky

Yes, we can continue to provide support far into the future. It will sometimes take longer than it did before to port to new quarterly and yearly releases. It will mainly be an issue for this initial Android 16 release and more than anything else difficulty adding support for new Pixel devices.

This was my main concern, I'm glad its been addressed

Viewpoint0232

raccoondad It will mainly be an issue for this initial Android 16 release and more than anything else difficulty adding support for new Pixel devices.

That's not too bad. I mean realistically, GrapheneOS doesn't have to support every single Pixel device. They have a support horizon of 7 years, so if - after the Pixel 6-9 - GrapheneOS supports only every 3rd generation of Pixel that's more than enough. e.g. Pixel 6-9 like current which have upstream support until 2031, then Pixel 12 (2027-2034), Pixel 15 (2030-2037). You'd have 2 or 3 supported Pixels overlapping at a time.

oci3o

raccoondad I think there's a few issues here.
GOS communication seems to be doom and gloom, maybe that's just how they type, which isn't helping the communities unrest.

GOS has some extremely talented peeps, even without their senior dev (who hopefully comes back safely and soon, as well as the rest involved in a pointless war) they can push forward, and clearly are.

I don't think anyone here expects A16 on day dot, I'm happy to wait for a while, it's no bother, just as long as we can get the monthly security patches, we are more than fine for a while.

Until the GOS team say we can't do anything, we are good.

Just stay put all, support the team where you can, and keep spreading the good work GOS do, hopefully they can get what they need then.

Elgoog

When was that Google dropped the "Don't be evil" motto?

blackrose

Elgoog euhm... Since they became a listed company

argante

DeletedUser355 Or am I just panicking?

Yes, you are panicking. I believe that GOS developers will cope with this situation. It will simply be more difficult. The best thing to do is to support the project. And be happy that you have a Pixel 9, because it has an unlocked bootloader. We do not know what will happen in the future, whether Google, like Apple, will not block the possibility of installing their own versions of OS on their phones. If this were to happen, the price of your Pixel 9 will skyrocket.

DeletedUser370

I understand that people feel worried, but it would be helpful if this community could start linking to the actual statements from the project instead of continuing to voice speculations. I frankly find it really annoying to read this thread.

https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114670995130379882

DeletedUser450

oci3o Totally agree with you. There is so much talented people behind GOS and they all have proved themselved along all the GOS lifetime and GOS was almost ready to go before Google stab.

Please people keep your patience, its just 1 week, but even a month and longer would be fine! I have a Samsung stock device (with the Google Play and all that crap) because my business provided me (that phone) and I sadly cannot request a different one, but the thing is it is still running A15 and I am almost sure most companies still are on A15.
I really think we all are lucky to get the A16 in a short time.

Only thing Im sad it is, as I am software developer, I cannot join forces with GOS team because my skills focus mainly on NodeJS, VueJS and low level on Linux, otherwise I would join. But at least I can donate to the team trying to keep the motivated enought like other people I have seen on the forums! Cheers GOS guys, you all are already doing a great and appreciated job!

spl4tt

DeletedUser450 Only thing Im sad it is, as I am software developer, I cannot join forces with GOS team because my skills focus mainly on NodeJS, VueJS and low level on Linux, otherwise I would join.

Same here. I'm experienced, but the level of GOS devs is just something else. I have deep respect for the team.

DeletedUser433

DeletedUser450 Does the AOSP code use Kotlin? I thought it was only for apps

spl4tt

DeletedUser433 I don't think the OS itself is written in Kotlin. That's just the apps.
I think Android itself is written in C afaik?

DeletedUser450

DeletedUser433 from what I have seen mostly is C

googlesucks

Google is so terrible to open-source developers. Imagine all the unpaid labor spent improving their operating system, just for them to randomly halt the reciprocal relationship and stop sharing their development. Terrible company. I hope they stop making phones and go all in on whatever advertising, surveillance, and military contract garbage they do nowadays.

DeletedUser299

googlesucks
I suppose its their ball, and we can't play anymore.
If my P6a ever gets to EOL, which I doubt! It will be the first and last Pixel I purchase. I see a feature/dumb phone with T9 text and a battery life of weeks, on the horizon for me.

JPN_Tales

Why am I being forced to upgrade to Android 16? Isn't it enough to just stay on Android 15 Q2 and keep receiving updates? I believe there should be no difference in terms of security.

DeletedUser433

JPN_Tales forced?

Delaney

JPN_Tales That's not how it works.

Bimmy

JPN_Tales

There might be a misunderstanding about the word "forced". Technically, one can stay at the current version, by just disabling automatic updates. (Although I'd strongly advise against it.) With deep technical knowledge, one might even fork GrapheneOS, follow every new security publication on android systems and attempt backporting whatever patch is possible.

Side note: To some extend, the developer of discontinued DivestOS (cp. above, https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/23080-aosp-and-pixel-device-support/19 ), attempted this herculean task.

But I assume, you'd prefer to stay at an older official GrapheneOS-version and just get official security updates, not developing and porting everything on your own. I can understand that. However, it probably would neither be feasible for a small project nor reasonable -- if one aims at very high security standards.

I'm not sure If i can give a real, deep answer to the "why". My attempt: Its because GrapheneOS is based on AOSP, but also on certain security hardware and appropriate support of that in terms of firmware/drivers/APIs in the OS. For both, a huge amount of the development is done by other developers -- and mainly happens for the most recent branches of Android (upstream). So, if one wants to implement and publish the newest security fixes asap (and is no superhuman developer) one only gets it realistically done by closely following the most recent upstream branch.

Also compare what DivestOS developer once wrote about on OS security: https://web.archive.org/web/20241223172430/https://divestos.org/pages/patch_levels#osSecurity
(Again the caveat/"Disclaimer": That article is from an archived, discontinued site. No guarantee that any reports there are accurate and still valid today.)

Does this answer your question?

DeletedUser370

JPN_Tales Isn't it enough to just stay on Android 15 Q2 and keep receiving updates? I believe there should be no difference in terms of security.

Each new Android release contains privacy and security enhancements. You can check out each version's release notes to get an impression of which.

Bimmy

DeletedUser299 I suppose its their ball, and we can't play anymore [...] I see a feature/dumb phone with T9 text [...] on the horizon for me.

Reading recent developer messages on mastodon, I'm not sure if I want to see it that dark. Google dealt a blow to custom OS development, but even if key decision makers at google would like to, they can't close, manipulate and unpublish everything FOSS already in the world.

They can however make new Pixels unattractive or even completely unsuitable in the future. That's true. (IMHO, the worst-case would probably be hard-wiring and disabling the OEM unlock option and continuing every bit of development closed source.) I think they'd ultimately hurt themselves badly by such a course, but ... bad business decisions have been made many times in history, admittedly.

In this regard I support GOS looking for future alternatives.

And if everything fails and doom is on the horizon, we can still go back to your dumb phone and T9. ;-) Or -- I hope you don't mind a little "humour" -- if it's real apocalypse, we might strive for a nice community somewhere in a non contaminated place that still has water and can find/cultivate taste food. People in communities always had to support one another.

argante

DeletedUser299 I see a feature/dumb phone with T9 text and a battery life of weeks, on the horizon for me.

If you mean Punkt MP02, because it appeared in a thread on this forum recently, I can tell you more. It's an Android phone, but an old version. It's no longer updated. So it will never be a secure phone. You can't install any other apps on it than Pigeon (Signal for MP02) plus two other, but unnecessary apps. I use this phone as a dumb phone - only for calls and receiving text messages. Pigeon/Signal is only for family and friends, where I know that their phones are also not secure. MP02 also serves as a mobile LTE router. This phone is often turned off. Next to it I have Pixel 9 Pro with GOS. And this phone is secured. So I use these two phones, but for different things. If I had to have only one phone, it would be Pixel with GOS.

Bimmy

Clarification to my above side note on DivestOS. When I wrote ...

Bimmy To some extend, the developer of discontinued DivestOS (cp. above, https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/23080-aosp-and-pixel-device-support/19 ), attempted this herculean task.

... I meant that DivestOS attempted to integrate as much of current patches into older OS branches.

In conjunction with the paragraph before my self-quoted one, it could be misunderstood as if DivestOS had originated as a fork of GOS, which it wasn't. Actually, the base of DivestOS had been LineageOS although enriched with some GOS code and, as said, the attempt to reintegrate as many security fixes as possible into the older OS branches - sometimes providing hundreds of fixes for ancient Linux kernel versions etc.

other8026

spl4tt There's a lot of Java, Kotlin, C++, and some Rust.

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