What data can Play Services access?

Rookieee

Yo. I read the Guide but I am not sure on the topic which data the Play Services can access.

"As with any other app, it can't access data of other apps and requires explicit user consent to gain access to profile data or the standard permissions. Apps within the same profile can communicate with mutual consent and it's no different for sandboxed Google Play."

On one side it says it cant access other apps, then it says "apps within the same profile". I only use one profile. I also NEVER in my entire life got a prompt from Play Services asking me for access to a certain app. Strange bc in the guide it says something about consent. Can anyone explain this to me?

And as a second question: Google is known for collecting random data like location, which apps are installed and like everything else they can find. Play Services need at least SOME privileges to function, this includes contact to things outside of the sandbox. Is there known what kind of data the Play Services actually can collect within GrapheneOS?

GrapheneOS

Rookieee

Yo. I read the Guide but I am not sure on the topic which data the Play Services can access.

It runs in the standard app sandbox with no special access or privileges. It cannot access anything beyond what other regular apps can access. This question indicates that you're misunderstanding how it works. In general, it can't access data from outside of the app sandbox. As with other apps, it can detect which apps are installed in the same profile as it and two apps within the same profile can choose to communicate with each other.

On one side it says it cant access other apps, then it says "apps within the same profile". I only use one profile. I also NEVER in my entire life got a prompt from Play Services asking me for access to a certain app. Strange bc in the guide it says something about consent. Can anyone explain this to me?

Any 2 apps within the same profile can communicate with mutual consent between both apps. There's nothing about this specific to Google Play services. Sandboxed Google Play has no special access or privileges including no special ability to communicate with other apps. It cannot communicate with apps which are not explicitly choosing to communicate with it. Those apps can use Google services without it.

And as a second question: Google is known for collecting random data like location, which apps are installed and like everything else they can find.

That's not really accurate. They don't send location anywhere without opting into doing so.

Play Services need at least SOME privileges to function, this includes contact to things outside of the sandbox. Is there known what kind of data the Play Services actually can collect within GrapheneOS?

It has no special access or privileges. Apps using it are explicitly choosing to communicate with it and can use Google services without Play services installed too. It's a common misconception that Play services is needed for apps to use Google services.

Graphene1

It will have access to and undoubtedly collect information relating to the permissions you have granted, in addition to general usage and interaction with the app data and data collected for the permissions listed within the 'All permissions' menu (to access, Settings>Apps>Google Play Services (& Store)>Permissions>three dots top right)

In terms of consent for IPCs, unfortunately its not user consent, it's app developer consent. To isolate you'll need to use private space or another profile.

ProfessorMonks

Thank you for explaining in much detail, GrapheneOS.

My question on this topic is whether it's possible for Google to access and upload data using Play Services from other Google apps since you said this:

GrapheneOS Any 2 apps within the same profile can communicate with mutual consent between both apps.

I believe there is integration between Google applications such as Photos, Gboard etc. So in the event that Play Services is installed with network permissions enabled, and Photos app & other apps such as Gboard installed without network permissions, would they be able to leverage some integration or mutual consent to exchange data to circumvent the blocked permissions?

Thank you

GrapheneOS

@Graphene1

data collected for the permissions listed within the 'All permissions' menu

No, that's not at all how the permission model works. That menu shows a list of what apps are able to request, not what apps can access. It's a common misconception that the 'All permissions' menu lists what an app can access. That's not how the permission model works. That menu groups the list of permissions an app can request into groups for the standard runtime permission toggles and then a group at the bottom for things covered by special access permissions, case by case requests and other approaches. It's a very misleading menu since it doesn't show how the permission controls for what can be requested work. It also has misleading descriptions for some of them such as query all packages since all packages can be queried via query declarations without it, and both are scoped to the profile.

Graphene1

"shows a list of what apps are able to request, not what apps can access" what's the difference to the end user if a request to access is granted under the hood? My simple mind is finding it hard to decipher a difference.

Genuine question here not trying to be argumentative, I literally have no idea how this plays out it in real life.

@GrapheneOS

Rookieee

So, in summary Play Services run in a sandbox and therefore cant report to google which other apps are installed, that dont use them, nor can it collect data from these apps (like Gallery, Calendar, etc.)?

"It's a common misconception that Play services is needed for apps to use Google services." you mean in gerneral, right? I need the Play Services for notifications on Telegram & Co.

SgtSurehand

Rookieee the problem with Play services and any app for that matter is that although it runs in a sandbox and thus is forced to behave by the permission model and other rules introduced by GrapheneOS, it can still potentially collect and report various hardware, non-hardware and performance info not covered by it when granted network access or via IPC.

Rookieee

SgtSurehand The thing is, I "want"* to use a banking app and I am pretty sure, I need the Play Services for that. On the other hand, I want to use Graphene because it is de-googled.

*stupid modern times where everything has to be online and with apps.

SgtSurehand

Rookieee using your banking app (if it works) is arguably more private on GrapheneOS than in the stock environment. I prefer to bank online in Vanadium. In both cases one must presume some data will get collected.

Rookieee

SgtSurehand Yeah, thats what I thought. Well, better then on Stock, as you said. I am not sure if it works via browser bc of the marketing of this banking product but it still was the best option, which is very sad. But yeah, at least I can make it be a bit better when it comes to collecting data.

axino

SgtSurehand
I want to move to this, but I would like separate private windows with desktop shortcuts, or is this bad?