Finding the balance with Play Services

ForestAuora

Hello All!

I am getting my feet wet with gOS having moved away from iPhone and into the Android world.
I've been slowly increasing my approach to privacy and de-googling as best I can, my threat model is low just looking to take back control of many things & reduce the data I feed to big tech.

I appreicate privacy is a spectrum but I'm trying to find the best balance of useability & the decreasing in reliance of google services & as I'm so new thought posting here would be interesting to gauge others approaches or opinions.

One thing I am currently struggling with is the reliance on notifications through Firebase and Google for many of the apps I'm trying to use to de-google. Mainly Proton Mail. But I'm also finding apps like Home Assistant rely on this (notifications on when systems are charging, doors are open etc).

Currently I have these apps in my main profile as I figured having easy access to them is handy as I check them a fair bit. But I dont know if I should be lumping anything that needs google access into what I currently use for android auto, navigation and just allowing pass-through notifications?

How do you guys handles apps that you use alot but need google play, do I just need to bite the bullet and not get notifications & accept this as part of de-googling?

Thanks for any thoughts!

Open_Source_Enjoyer

ForestAuora Currently I have these apps in my main profile as I figured having easy access to them is handy as I check them a fair bit. But I dont know if I should be lumping anything that needs google access into what I currently use for android auto, navigation and just allowing pass-through notifications?

I would put all apps that need Google Play Services in the private space.
This has nearly the same security as another profile but is a lot more convenient.

Skjold

Also new to this. I am also looking for best way to run a Google free profile with Proton Mail and Pass. Are you right now using Proton Mail without Google services?

MotherShipton

Skjold The Protonmail and Proton Pass apps work without Google Play Services installed though the mail app includes Google Firebase to provide notifications. I didn't really want the mail app in my main profile due to this so I have it in a separate profile along with the VPN. It's sometimes convenient to open mail that way.

I have Proton Pass in my main profile and can view my email account in the Vanadium browser in that profile if I wish. I am not at all bothered about notifications.

Michiel

I think I have a similar threat model as you have and I haven been going back and forth a few times from 'Everything in owner with Google Play Services' to 'Use owner profile only to push apps to different user profiles'. In the latter I mainly used a profile without Play Services, sacrificing being notified in some cases (but I used the You have Mail app for Proton mail and Molly FOSS for messaging). The missed notifications and other annoyances (small bugs, switching profiles for certain apps, the need for inter profile sharing for passwords and TOTP codes, and Android Auto), made me go back to the first option. I noticed that for me also the battery lasts longer for this option.

For now, I use Firebase and the Play Store from Google, as well as a few non-Google apps that rely on Google Play Services, and I am okay with that. But I kept the user profiles to be able to switch back if I get too upset by being dependent on these Google services, so I can switch back fairly quickly.

ForestAuora

Michiel This is some great info. I did read about the you have mail app a bit, but i always worry about the time a vital email comes through and I miss it.

I feel like as you said the daily use profile with play services just for notifications & my main use apps (no google services signed in or google apps) could be a good starting point with a dive over the coming months to work around firebase & finding alternatives. Maybe I look to move away from Proton to Tuta, BitWarden, Addy and a NAS for backup. I suspect this would run up more than a proton sub.

Eirikr70

With a similar threat model, I have all in the same profile together with Google Play, but always favour apps that use Unified Push rather than Firebase.

Skjold

MotherShipton
Interesting. So to be clear. You are able to run mail and pass apps without Google services installed? Downside is that notifications are run by Google Firebase? (is that automatically done or something that has to be installed alongside proton mail app? What info does that Google Firebase collect? Thnaks for the input by btw. :-)

ForestAuora

Skjold This is what I observed. I could run Proton Mail just fine with no play services, just no notifications which messed with Home Assistant.

I have not signed into Google Play, it's just installed and seems to work.

MotherShipton

Skjold Yes, as has been said, Proton's apps work exactly as they should with no Play Services on the phone. They can also be downloaded directly from Proton, and updated using Obtanium so no Play Store account is required.

Sadly, due to a lack if technical knowledge, I am unable to say exactly what Firebase does, except to say that it sends/receives pings to your phone from Google regarding notifications. It is also doing this regardless of whether notifications are turned on or off in the Proton mail app. This was enough for me to uninstall the app and revert to using my browser for Proton mail.

Since then, I have created another profile just for the mail app which I can switch to occasionally for convenience, but is inactive at all other times.

Exhort14

ForestAuora always worry about the time a vital email comes through and I miss it.

A bit tangential, but this is the purpose of notifications. They are not there to alert you. They are there to remind you that your phone should have your attention. Like Pavlov's dogs and slot machines in a casino, the alert is the ding that creates a biological attachment to our devices.

From a work perspective, I'll add that effective email management means only processing email 3 times a day. I'm addition to limiting the amount of time you spend on email (because it's relative importance to your other work is basically zero), you'll enjoy your work day more. Research tells us that the employee experience with email begins to decrease after the 3rd touch of email during a work day. This is due to the disruption of focus it causes on your day and that feeling of not getting anything important done.

ForestAuora

Exhort14 Now this is the kind of stuff I love discussion threads for, changing perspectives & exactly why I posted this thread.

I've never really thought of it like this before, but you are totally right. I'm going to give this a go, I do find a large part of my day is spent with emails. That's quite a nice way to then reduce the need for notifications at the same time.

I can just check my personal email morning and night, with work related emails just a few times a day.

Genuinely, thank you. I am going to spend my evening thinking how I can best implement this now.

Exhort14

Exhort14 The biggest challenge will be shifting away from using your inbox as a to do list and only using it as a communication tool.

These free podcasts have helped me (I have no affiliation with them either, just a great resource I found a few years back):
https://manager-tools.com/2013/03/email-three-times-day-part-1

Jaseroque

To me, the channel reflects the urgency of the message. If it’s important, they'll call. If it’s time-sensitive, they'll text. I feel email is for things that can wait. I check email two or three times a day.

I'm moving away from Proton Mail, but I never did install the app. I used the PWA via Vanadium. No notifications, but it was fine for simply reading and sending emails.

ForestAuora

Jaseroque Where from Proton are you going? Tuta?

I say I'm de-googling but then my email, cal, VPN, storage, alias and passwords are with them. Don't want to get trapped with them, may need to de-proton soon!

area51

Jaseroque I agree with your importance methodology. I have GrapheneOS and one messaging app installed and that's it.
I am the master of my device, not its slave..
The mobile phone, a true modern day, "fools lantern".

Jaseroque

ForestAuora Yes, Tuta. Of the many Proton products, I was only using Proton Mail. There's nothing wrong with Proton, my motivations are purely political.

wildworld23

I recently switched to GOS on my pixel 7 pro without planning a few things that I might need. I unfortunately have too many personal and financial things tied to me that need google so it would just be a pain to not have google services on. I simply deactivate the network permission when not in use. I am considering getting a SSD for all my photos

jackFang

How do you guys handles apps that you use alot but need google play, do I just need to bite the bullet and not get notifications & accept this as part of de-googling?

Maybe ask yourself why do you need notifications, is there something urgent you expect?

I don't get any notifications, and I feel its healthier with phone use. Notification is a feature you might feel like you have to use because its this shiny thing, but its not needed in reality unless you need to be notified of something urgent.

Also using protonmail here, just the web version. I expect emails daily but not needed to be notified immediately